"What the Young Man Should Know": Harper's Magazin

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14 Oct 2012, 11:00 pm

There's a satire site on masculinity that I love, called The Art Of Manliness
and I found this article from a 1933 magazine interesting:

"Clearly, to this handful of skills and accomplishments he must add others, many others, before he is even on the road to becoming a self-sufficient and well-rounded young man. Leaving all formal subjects out of consideration, he should learn how to:

Swim
Handle firearms
Speak in public
Cook
Typewrite
Ride a horse
Drive a car
Dance
Drink
And speak at least one foreign language well

The list does not end there. There are several dozen mental and physical skills that I should like him to acquire. He will acquire some of them in the mere course of growing up; he will acquire some of them more painfully, as the result of adult pressure; there are others that he will avoid; and he will eventually be punished for their omissions with not a little discomfort and social misery. Ordinary education, even high-priced education, will not guarantee him the essential skills, and some of them are better learned after “education” is over."

Apologies if in wrong forum. Since there are often posts on what men and women want in partners and what appropriate roles for men and women are, I found this antiquated take on manhood interesting, especially the bits about cooking and dancing and things I feel like now would be considered more feminine interests. Surprised bear hunting isn't on there, but perhaps that falls under "firearms"....

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1000Knives
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14 Oct 2012, 11:08 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:

There's a satire site on masculinity that I love, called The Art Of Manliness
and I found this article from a 1933 magazine interesting:

"Clearly, to this handful of skills and accomplishments he must add others, many others, before he is even on the road to becoming a self-sufficient and well-rounded young man. Leaving all formal subjects out of consideration, he should learn how to:

Swim Check
Handle firearms Check
Speak in public Probably not
Cook Check
Typewrite Check
Ride a horse Probably not
Drive a car Check
Dance Working on, gotta get some classes in
Drink Check
And speak at least one foreign language well Vaguely working on, hope to travel to said country someday.

The list does not end there. There are several dozen mental and physical skills that I should like him to acquire. He will acquire some of them in the mere course of growing up; he will acquire some of them more painfully, as the result of adult pressure; there are others that he will avoid; and he will eventually be punished for their omissions with not a little discomfort and social misery. Ordinary education, even high-priced education, will not guarantee him the essential skills, and some of them are better learned after “education” is over."

Apologies if in wrong forum. Since there are often posts on what men and women want in partners and what appropriate roles for men and women are, I found this antiquated take on manhood interesting, especially the bits about cooking and dancing and things I feel like now would be considered more feminine interests. Surprised bear hunting isn't on there, but perhaps that falls under "firearms"....

Stargazer43
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14 Oct 2012, 11:08 pm

Ugh, I felt like I was doing so well in life, but this list of predetermined qualities has made me question whether I truly am! I'm a terrible dancer, I've never ridden a horse, I don't drink, and I've only fired a gun once! Mais, mon Francais c'est tres mal aussi. It's time for me to get more manly: I just scheduled some ballet lessons and ordered a cran-apple martini...here's to a more masculine me!

Pondering
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14 Oct 2012, 11:13 pm

Knowing how to do these wouldn't hurt. Women could benefit from knowing how to do them too!

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14 Oct 2012, 11:20 pm

Pondering wrote:

Knowing how to do these wouldn't hurt. Women could benefit from knowing how to do them too!

I've never so much as touched a typewriter. ~sigh~ So much to accomplish.

steviewonderau
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14 Oct 2012, 11:22 pm

If you are male and do not have good looks, wealth and charm, most average women will not consider dating you. Males usually have to make do and settle for second best. Women will not settle for anything less than their ideal match.

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14 Oct 2012, 11:27 pm

steviewonderau wrote:

Maybe if you could swim and handle a firearm, you'd have more options, Stevie.

1000Knives
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14 Oct 2012, 11:41 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:

steviewonderau wrote:

Maybe if you could swim and handle a firearm, you'd have more options, Stevie.

Australia got rid of all their firearms worth handling. Thanks gun control.

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14 Oct 2012, 11:42 pm

1000Knives wrote:

ValentineWiggin wrote:

steviewonderau wrote:

Maybe if you could swim and handle a firearm, you'd have more options, Stevie.

Australia got rid of all their firearms worth handling. Thanks gun control.

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15 Oct 2012, 12:03 am

Despite I'm sure you weren't serious when you posted this, I do find it interesting.

Despite here cooking and dancing being considered "feminine" pursuits, I really can't consider them as such (maybe that's a cultural thing) - certainly the guy who actually know how to do these that I know do not come off "feminine" - pretty much the exact opposite. Especially cooking it's a survival skill, knowing how to feed yourself decently.

I know one person who fits your list off the top of my head - he's a very attractive as a person.
And I have all of those skills except one - the speaking in public one. :lol:
(I've been working on that one lately - I can teach classes but not make speeches)

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Last edited by Kjas on 15 Oct 2012, 1:52 am, edited 2 times in total.

johnny77
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15 Oct 2012, 12:16 am

ValentineWiggin wrote:

There's a satire site on masculinity that I love, called The Art Of Manliness
and I found this article from a 1933 magazine interesting:

"Clearly, to this handful of skills and accomplishments he must add others, many others, before he is even on the road to becoming a self-sufficient and well-rounded young man. Leaving all formal subjects out of consideration, he should learn how to:

Swim do
Handle firearms do
Speak in public could If my like depended on it
Cook men should be able to BBQ and make appetizers minimum
Typewrite that way you can say your working on a novel
Ride a horse can
Drive a car do
Dance do
Drink as neaded
And speak at least one foreign language well can

The list does not end there. There are several dozen mental and physical skills that I should like him to acquire. He will acquire some of them in the mere course of growing up; he will acquire some of them more painfully, as the result of adult pressure; there are others that he will avoid; and he will eventually be punished for their omissions with not a little discomfort and social misery. Ordinary education, even high-priced education, will not guarantee him the essential skills, and some of them are better learned after “education” is over."

Apologies if in wrong forum. Since there are often posts on what men and women want in partners and what appropriate roles for men and women are, I found this antiquated take on manhood interesting, especially the bits about cooking and dancing and things I feel like now would be considered more feminine interests. Surprised bear hunting isn't on there, but perhaps that falls under "firearms"....

civrev
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15 Oct 2012, 12:30 am

In spite of the obvious humor of the content of the article, it DOES raise a valid idea. The beautiful and successful looking women that guys sometimes lament they have no chance at getting, probably actually put some effort into being attractive to guys, and it works. The idea of that article is that guys can do things themselves that makes them more attractive to women, and if they want to attract a beautiful and successful looking woman then chances are they themselves need to live up to that standard.

This is a concept that I had simply never considered until fairly recently. Since roughly half of the population is split between male and female, it would make sense that doing this would make a guy the subject of multiple ladies' desires. The point: if you have certain standards you expect of someone, instead of lamenting your bad luck of being a guy, go out and reach those standards yourself and the odds will likely be in your favor.

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15 Oct 2012, 1:47 am

ValentineWiggin wrote:

Swim
Handle firearms
Speak in public
Cook
Typewrite
Ride a horse
Drive a car
Dance
Drink
And speak at least one foreign language well

Swim: yes, but not great. Could do better when I was a teenager.

Handle firearms: yes. I grew up with them.

Speak in public: yes, but not real well. I have taught math and computer science classes at the college/university level.

Cook: yes. I generally prefer my cooking over restaurants, but that's partially because I can be sure the food was handled appropriately.

Typewrite: yes. In today's day and age using a computer would count. I haven't used a real typewriter in at least ten years.

Ride a horse: yes. I grew up riding them. In the latter part of elementary school and in junior high and high school, horseback was my preferred form of transportation. Back then when we needed to move cattle from one pasture to another, we used horses. These days, they load the cattle up on trucks for the two or three miles instead.

Drive a car: yes. No problem. I get bored doing it, though. I'd sooner someone else drive while I read or take a nap. Also have driven trucks and school buses.

Dance: very limited and not very well even then.

Drink: these days I don't drink much. When I did drink much, I could usually hold my liquor.

Speak at least one foreign language well: I flunk this one completely.

Last edited by eric76 on 15 Oct 2012, 1:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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15 Oct 2012, 1:48 am

civrev wrote:

Different people want different things.
But your points remind me of a fat-positive activist video I saw a long time ago where a woman was talking about how overweight women can become so hopeless about dating and being rejected that they use their perceptions of men wanting the Thin Hot Babe as a fall phantom for their other areas of improvement. They might not have made an effort to speak in an educated manner, for instance, or take up other interests so they could learn something- they just used their weight as an excuse to not improve themselves, because they decided it was pointless. If nothing else, it struck me as a far more empowering and positive take for people who are feeling like they're doomed to be unsuccessful with the opposite sex- to decide that even if you have enormous obstacles, there are still things you can work on.

Also reminds me of another article I read about how men become disillusioned with dating and romance (and love and sex) because they've largely been brought up with this dominant cultural narrative that society owed them a hot girl- the hero, if he strives hard enough, always has some gorgeous woman fall into his lap at the end, and it's usually in some sort of mythical, supernatural saga where the hero performs ridiculous feats and defeats enormous enemies, whereas in reality the work that might result in the most success is internal and much more personal.

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15 Oct 2012, 2:03 am

Kjas wrote:

(I've been working on that one lately - I can teach classes but not make speeches)

I was talking about stereotypes- macho men!
In my experience, if a man can dance (or act, or sing) women will be all over him,
and the beefy muscled men seem very threatened by this type of guy.

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15 Oct 2012, 2:09 am

I figured it was sterotypical for your culture.

In my experience, the beefy, muscled macho guys are the ones who can dance and sing - and cook.

Perhaps this is why the list doesn't make sense to me. :lol:

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