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meems
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14 Jan 2013, 11:49 pm

http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2 ... e-a-creep/

I thought this article could be useful to a lot of us(not just guys, but the rest of us as well) or at least the interview it links to "Interview With a Virgin: Ben" http://thehairpin.com/2013/01/interview ... virgin-ben which actually has some good insight into what a specific person with a PDD has done to deal with some of the issues that I see a lot of people here talking about.


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15 Jan 2013, 12:09 am

i dont see how it shows how not to be a creep, but more of how ones intentions can seem misguided by another.



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15 Jan 2013, 12:20 am

The best way not to be a creep is to find a cure for the 'sperg and then TAKE IT.



aspiemike
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15 Jan 2013, 12:28 am

MXH wrote:
i dont see how it shows how not to be a creep, but more of how ones intentions can seem misguided by another.


One thing I have learned from my dating experience is that it doesn't matter what your intentions are. The only thing that matters to the girl is what they feel around you.



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15 Jan 2013, 12:29 am

Shau wrote:
The best way not to be a creep is to find a cure for the 'sperg and then TAKE IT.

How would that prevent NTs from being creeps?


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MXH
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15 Jan 2013, 12:32 am

I find there is no way of not being a creep. Especially since the same person can react differently to the same behavior when done by 2 different people.



meems
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15 Jan 2013, 12:49 am

MXH wrote:
i dont see how it shows how not to be a creep, but more of how ones intentions can seem misguided by another.


I think the title may be somewhat misleading - but I do think the article is meant to say if we get called creepy, the way to get past that label is to take steps to change our behavior and how we interact with people, rather than dwelling on the situation.

I have been called a creep, a lot, for blank stares or not knowing I was supposed to end an interaction(following someone at a gathering and talking to them when they're trying to end the conversation) etc.

I think the conversation below the first article is really interesting and covers a lot of this, as well.


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15 Jan 2013, 2:18 am

MXH wrote:
I find there is no way of not being a creep. Especially since the same person can react differently to the same behavior when done by 2 different people.

Totally with you on this! I'm a girl whom people consider relatively attractive - yes, I've been likened to Taylor Swift a few times, that's why she's my avatar - and although this is likely not a "politically correct" attitude my feeling when approached by an unattractive/unshowered/entitled/otherwise creepy guy is "What makes you think I'm gonna pick you of all people?" Although now that I have a boyfriend, of course, that isn't much of an issue anymore. :)

I should also note that, because most of my friends are gay guys, I've had conversations and done silly things with them that I might slap a straight guy for. :P


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DialAForAwesome
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15 Jan 2013, 6:13 am

Agreed with everything Ben said. EVERYTHING. Especially the "neophyte" part.

The first article is all right, but ruined by the comments.


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meems
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15 Jan 2013, 6:24 am

I found a lot of the comments to be kind of meh, but I was glad to see aspie females explaining that we're especially unable to suss out whether or not someone's intentions are possibly dangerous or they're just bad at communicating etc.

I don't know, I'm tired and my dog is trying to eat my earring as I type this.


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15 Jan 2013, 6:35 am

meems wrote:
http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2013/01/09/how-not-to-be-a-creep/

I thought this article could be useful to a lot of us(not just guys, but the rest of us as well) or at least the interview it links to "Interview With a Virgin: Ben" http://thehairpin.com/2013/01/interview ... virgin-ben which actually has some good insight into what a specific person with a PDD has done to deal with some of the issues that I see a lot of people here talking about.


So. I have a lot of thoughts about this.
Maybe there are people out there that are not aware that NTs might think they're creepy (and sometimes with all right) and yes, they do need to know it's not something they're just entitled to and hear the stories.
But I think we should start some kind of resource with links with help for social interacting too, for the people wondering where to go from that "insight". That article speaks itself of just that:
Quote:
Unfortunately, despite the fact that Ben had basically the exact reaction that any decent human being would have — “I am doing something that scares people, I don’t want to scare people, I would like to stop doing this” — he wasn’t really given the tools to help him. Instead, he walked away feeling alone


I have some problems with that article itself too (almost saying all creeps actually have good intentions and should just learn to behave, then saying that anyone that can't read social cues is a creep, not mentioning the existence of women on the spectrum, not mentioning that neurodiverse women also gets harassed) but it's been taken care of in the comment-section. It is nice talking about "creepiness" from the perspective of "hey there are neurodiverse people that aren't actually trying to creep you out" but I don't think it did it that well.

Just found that one of my fav books is available in .pdf if anyone wants to read it. This book is great in taking apart and explaining social interaction:
http://files.myopera.com/eketab3/blog/T ... 1358248068



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15 Jan 2013, 6:41 am

meems wrote:
I found a lot of the comments to be kind of meh, but I was glad to see aspie females explaining that we're especially unable to suss out whether or not someone's intentions are possibly dangerous or they're just bad at communicating etc.

I don't know, I'm tired and my dog is trying to eat my earring as I type this.


Yeah. Deserves another article. Also we're in a worse position than NT women in a situation like that, and NT men are worse offenders in actual creepiness.
"The gift of fear" by Gavin de Becker is really good at explaining dangerous social interactions and warning signs. It's a bit sensationalist and trying to scare people, AND he is really victim-blamey in that he thinks it's up to people not to be assaulted (and the chapter on "Dangerous children" or whatever is just a f*****g horrible mess that no one should read ever) BUT for a person that genuinely does not know what to look for it is good.



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15 Jan 2013, 7:23 am

The comments, to me, only showed me how crazy some things have gotten. Instead of things being equal as they should be, it always seems to be skewed in one way or the other.

One of the weird things is that women are allowed to basically be wary of all men if they want to, but the same thing isn't afforded of a man. If a man is wary of women for any reason, even for a good reason, he is a creep or a misogynist--full stop. That type of thinking in itself is quite creepy to me. I understand the reasoning behind it, but don't really agree with the notion that only men can be creepy.

This is one that was brought up in Ben's interview: touching someone on the shoulder or the small of their back during a date to see if they're interested. Now, most Aspies can't even get away with saying "hi" to someone of the opposite sex, let alone this. It's a very strange catch-22. If you get called a creep just for doing something innocuous over and over again, then how on earth are you gonna get past that barrier to TOUCH someone? This doesn't make any sense to me, and when Ben said he thought it seemed unacceptable, I perfectly got where he was coming from.


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meems
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15 Jan 2013, 8:02 am

DialAForAwesome wrote:
The comments, to me, only showed me how crazy some things have gotten. Instead of things being equal as they should be, it always seems to be skewed in one way or the other.

One of the weird things is that women are allowed to basically be wary of all men if they want to, but the same thing isn't afforded of a man. If a man is wary of women for any reason, even for a good reason, he is a creep or a misogynist--full stop. That type of thinking in itself is quite creepy to me. I understand the reasoning behind it, but don't really agree with the notion that only men can be creepy.

This is one that was brought up in Ben's interview: touching someone on the shoulder or the small of their back during a date to see if they're interested. Now, most Aspies can't even get away with saying "hi" to someone of the opposite sex, let alone this. It's a very strange catch-22. If you get called a creep just for doing something innocuous over and over again, then how on earth are you gonna get past that barrier to TOUCH someone? This doesn't make any sense to me, and when Ben said he thought it seemed unacceptable, I perfectly got where he was coming from.


I'm confused by what you're saying, I think. Women and men both are allowed to be wary of any man or woman, and men and women can both be creepy. If someone creeps you out or comes off as being a creep you have just as much right as me to ask them to back up and back off, not touch you, etc.

I don't understand how you're linking that to overcoming that barrier. He seemed to indicate getting called creepy was what lead him to make steps to change his behaviors(and get past the creep label and being perceived as creepy) so he could move forward toward finding the sort of relationship he wants in his life. He stopped doing the things he was being called a creep for doing.

And I think one thing you might have misunderstood is that women don't want to be wary of any and all men or even any men - a lot of us feel we have to, and with sound reason. In fact I think most of us, especially those who are aware that bad things happen and bad things can happen anywhere at any time with anyone. I think for anyone faced with someone who could potentially be a threat and isn't responding to clear signals to leave you alone or back out of your face etc. you have every right to feel creeped out because you don't know if that person just doesn't feel obligated to follow your cues to leave you alone or if they aren't understanding them. And when someone is already creeping you out it's hard to say "leave me alone" or even "f**k off" because again, if they already got those cues, who's to say they aren't going to continue to be unreasonable or actually become more than a potential threat?

I think that's why aspies have a hard time. We DO usually respond best to direct and clear verbal communication, but a person isn't always going to know that, and we might be frightening them and have no idea until the idea that we're some creeper is pretty much a permanent one in that person's mind.

We have to find ways to stop coming off as creepy, scaring people etc.

Gaah I'm babbling


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15 Jan 2013, 8:10 am

meems wrote:
http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2013/01/09/how-not-to-be-a-creep/

I thought this article could be useful to a lot of us(not just guys, but the rest of us as well) or at least the interview it links to "Interview With a Virgin: Ben" http://thehairpin.com/2013/01/interview ... virgin-ben which actually has some good insight into what a specific person with a PDD has done to deal with some of the issues that I see a lot of people here talking about.


I have a problem with how Ben's parents and the school reacted to it.