Discrimination on looks is fairer than on personality

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I've been disturbed by a growing trend in both NT society and even the autistic community to claim that discrimination on the basis of looks is terrible and shallow. That people should be judged for their "personality" instead.

I actually disagree with this mightily. It's much harder to change one's personality--particularly if one has autistic traits--than it is to change one's looks. I think the vast majority of people have the capacity to become attractive through working out and plastic surgery. I wish I could get plastic surgery for my autistic personality.

As a result, I think it's less terrible to discriminate on the basis of looks (how well someone chooses to take care of himself/herself) than it is to discriminate on the basis of personality (with what neurological configuration was this person born?), particularly when autistic traits are involved.

If I were in a hiring position, I would never hire aesthetically challenged NT's, just to make a statement. And I don't feel sorry for unattractive NT women who complain about not getting laid.

Last edited by Tyri0n on 17 Feb 2013, 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I've got Asperger's Syndrome and a good personality too - I don't think autism automatically means a person has a bad personality at all.

Having problems associated with the ASD is not the same as personality problems

Personality isn't dependent on neurology anyway - I've met NTs with ok personalities and people with ASDs with terrible personalities so it's a mistake to blame a bad personality on your ASD

If a person is mean as in tight with money, it's a lot easier to stop being mean than have your face totally altered via plastic surgery

In NT speak, "bad personality" means:

introverted
a voice without prosody (usually identified as "bad social skills")
awkwardness in responding to social situations
body language is off
lack of fashion sense

I'm pretty sure most autistics have at least three out of five here. Nessa, you may think you have a good personality, and I would likely agree with you. But how many friends do you have now, and how many did you have as a teenager? If you've overcome all your issues, congratulations!! I admire you. But didn't it take years? Almost anyone can become attractive in less than a year if they really want to be.

Last edited by Tyri0n on 17 Feb 2013, 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Solution - don't bother mixing with NTs!

terrible topic

That looks more like an incomplete list of what makes, "socially awkward"... I think even for most NTs there's a lot more to "bad personality" than that. Many of the NTs I've known wouldn't consider someone to have a bad personality for any of those reasons, although those things can cause misunderstandings about other features.

As for changing appearance vs. changing personality, a person can change either one if they want to -- but only to a limited extent in either case. Physical appearance can probably be changed more dramatically through plastic surgery, but there are a lot of good reasons not to do that, including financial and health related ones.

There's also the issue of whether someone should be expected to change themselves to fit someone else's ideals when the differences have little effect on other people anyway aside from giving them something to be self-righteous and snotty about... which probably has a lot to do with why people think it's shallow.

I speak fluent NT and this is not at all true. The reason why I joined WP almost a year ago was because I was in love with someone who fit the above description.

While I feel similarly that people who don't take care of themselves, and in particular, fat people, deserve little sympathy, I don't think the argument can be made that no one should be judged on their personality. If you can't judge based on looks or personality, what's supposed to be the discriminating factor that prevents human society from degenerating into an animalistic orgy?

But only 1/100 people are diagnosed ASD? How are you supposed to deal with the other 99%?

For me at least, physical attraction is what distinguishes what we commonly call heterosexual (or homosexual) relationships from more platonic friendships. Or course you want your partner to have a compatible personality if you plan to spend the rest of your life with them, but if you have sex in mind (and I for one do), physical attraction is a must.

Sometimes, being overweight stems from other conditions. No physical conditions come to mind, but there is such a thing as food addiction. Depression can also lead to consolidation of weight (from comfort eating, lack of energy, etc.). You don't have to be attracted to them, but it's harder than you think for some people.


But see, the thing is, that's what most people are talking about when it comes to judging someone based on their personality. Ideally, everybody should be with someone they are both physically and mentally/emotionally compatible with, but if you can't have one of them, it makes more sense to forego the latter, as looks are transient. That's the point others are trying to make, I believe.

Obviously, society is going to discriminate on both. But I disagree with the idea that discriminating on personality is somehow better. It's actually worse. I think discriminating on the basis of looks is the lesser of two evils.'

If I were in charge of hiring and I had two job candidates: one, a fat NT with wonderful social skills, and the other a, a beautiful/fit man or woman who met the NT definition of "bad personality," I would choose to hire the latter without regret.

Last edited by Tyri0n on 17 Feb 2013, 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nobody on the forum has ever said that attraction should be based 100% on personality. that was just one member's "reduction ad absurdum" in another thread, where he tried to reduce other people's reasonable points of view (that attraction should not be solely based on skin colour, and that personality isn't an extension on skin colour) to a ridiculous farce. it is an arguing tool that is usually used in PPR, but sometimes it spills over here.


i don't think anyone is asking you to change your personality. i also don't think changing yourself for other people is a good idea, but i also think that it's a bad idea to resist good changes just because they are hard. that seems counterproductive.

i think your idea of attractive is different from mine. with the exception of people with actual facial deformities, i have never seen one single face that was improved by plastic surgery. also, i think people who don't work out can be attractive too. so your idea that people could just go out and get plastic surgery and work out to become attractive is frankly quite silly to me.


i think that you should not judge how other people select their partners. your attempt to rank your discrimination based on looks has not shown it to be inherently better.


make sure to let me know where you end up working so i can tell them you plan to hold discriminatory hiring practices. i'm sure they'd be terribly impressed. of course, you'd be surrounded by good looking people - would you get plastic surgery to fit in?


that was unnecessarily mean.

I got orthodontics and LASIK and am working with a coach to change my posture, including bone structure, so that would be the next step. I have an ok face but a few deformities/imbalances I would like to change. I practice what I preach.

All I can say is that I more enjoyed living in an appearance-oriented Asian culture than I have in the personality-oriented U.S. culture. It's perfectly ok to be an introvert in Japan, China, or South Korea, but it's expected that you take care of yourself and look nice. In Korea, children regularly get plastic surgery as a high-school graduation gift.

I wish America was more like that.

Are you serious?

I don't know if this topic was meant to be in "love and dating," seeing as you discussed hiring positions and all that, so I'll keep this general I guess.

I think a better idea is to not judge people based on things that they can't change or have no control over. No, it's not okay to discriminate against someone because they're a bit aloof or shy; after all, you might like them after you get to know them better; but should we be accepting of people who are as*holes to everyone around them because you "shouldn't judge anyone based on personality?" You may not be able to "change your personality", per-se, but you can change the way that you treat others, which is how I think most people end up judging their peers anyway.

As for discriminating based on appearance, yes, I'd say that it's okay to pass judgement on a person for their appearance who doesn't brush their teeth or shower, because it's something that they can easily change.
Imagine, however, that you happened to be born like this girl:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq9l2r3Ax9k[/youtube]
That's not something that you can easily fix with plastic surgery. Would you want people to be able to treat you as subhuman because you don't fit the proper beauty standard? She might have the most caring personality in the world, but by your logic, we should cast her away because she's ugly.


I hope that you never are in a hiring position, because that's possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard. (Unless of course, you work in the fashion industry, in which case it's probably a good career move )