A possible second chance with a woman...doing things right

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So to make a long story short, I had a lunch date almost a year ago with a woman. We work in similar fields, both do documentaries as well, and have a lot in common. I liked her very much, but she was testing the waters dating wise. Not long after our one and only outing she met a fellow and they got engaged a few months later. But we kept in touch in the interim, and I just learned from her that she called off the engagement ! !! !!

We chatted briefly over FB, and she wants to meet up to discuss a documentary project. She's emphasized it's professional, and she's not in a "dating mindset" right now.... I can understand the sentiment, and I'm obviously not going to press the matter. I'm going to be professional, above board, and help her in any way I can with her project idea.

But I don't want to close the door either on the potential for something more, and I don't want to fall into the friend zone to never return. I can see a great danger, since she's probably in a vulnerable state, and maybe looking for someone to talk to, and we all know how that can play out, with a nice guy like me being the passive friend, to bolster her ego, so when she's ready again, she drops me and looks for someone else.

But I KNOW I can be a good person for her. I know I'm adequate, and I know i have a lot of love to give. We could be great friends, collaborators and more. I don't want to shut this door. I want to do things right.

But how?

Turn your thoughts off... well I could say that, but it's impossible. Just observe and choose which thoughts to listen to and which ones not to. Should help with the positivity.
Next, don't analyze anything and just be present. Go with the flow.

so it's basically like Henry Rollins song disconnect.. where he talks about how his mind keeps his mind on his mind..

Respect her feelings that the meeting is ''professional'' and that she's not in the dating mindset. Later down the track when she is interested in dating again is when you should start thinking about how to make her see that you're the one. IF you do that now, even subtly, she will likely pick up on it, find you overbearing and disrespectful and cut you out of her life for good, even in a purely professional capacity.

In a perfect world, you could modulate your emotions at will and take the approach that here is a good person, worth knowing and working with; a person with whom you can be friends at the same level she wants to be friends with you. Ideally you could adjust your emotional commitment to balance her emotional commitment. It's not easy. I'm not even sure it's possible.

I think most people are more comfortable dealing with people who interact with a similar level of emotional involvement to themselves. Too reserved or too interested can come across as awkward. Of course Aspies have a hard time reading other people's emotions and an equally hard time keeping their emotions in check. Do you think it might be possible for you to try to stay aware of how you express yourself emotionally and to try to "dial back" how intensely you express yourself?

From what you describe, it sounds like she is not interested in a relationship with you, but she also doesn't object to you. If you deal with her as if this is "getting your foot in the door" for a potential relationship, you are likely to just annoy her. If you treat her professionally and you respect her desire for this to be just a working relationship, then she might gain some further respect for you. But if you try to turn it into an emotional relationship when she has said she wants to keep it professional, then that will definitely turn her off.

I think your best best is to, at least temporarily, set aside any hopes and focus on the documentary project. Behave with respect to both her and to yourself. Don't try to make your work together anything more than what it is. Err on the side of being a bit reserved. Allow whatever happens between you and her to be whatever comes about naturally. Don't try to force it into any one direction.

First of all; forget about this misguided concept:

Honestly, I am starting to think that The Friend Zone is the aspie guy's Boogie Man that he can blame for not getting into the here and now of relationships. (Then he tells himself that he doesn't have a girlfriend because he's such a good guy. Hogwash!) Forget the Boogie Man. BE her friend. Women fall in love with male friends all the time.

Second of all; what he said ^ (AspieMike):

Oh man, I can't emphasize this enough.


Third; Be her shoulder to cry on about anything but the guy she just broke up with. She has her gal friends for that. Just don't entertain any talk about the last guy. The minute she starts talking about him shut that down as playfully as you can. Don't be an ear for that. Say;

Sweetheart, I'll listen to anything except talk about your last guy. (Say it with good humor.) And if she says, Why? You say; Why would I?

If she presses, you say, Honey, I'm just not interested in him. I'm interested in you.
If she says, But if you're interested in me then you must be interested in what he did to me.
You say; Nah-unh. You can talk about him to your gal friends if you're not over him. (Keep your tone light and teasing, but do not relent and listen to talk about that guy.)

Is she insists and just starts to blurt out about the guy, you say, Darling I want to stay here with you but I've gotta go. (Teasing her, but leave anyway.) I'm looking forward to seeing you on Tuesday. (And allow yourself to look like you do want to see her again.)

Make it into The I'm Not Gunna Listen to Talk About That Guy Game. It may eventually become a joke between the two of you and likewise That Guy will become a joke to her. Win-Win, for both of you.

Just stay present with her but not when she needs to talk about that guy. That's how to be her friend without the Boogie Man friend zone.

Why am I being so adamant about not listening to talk about the last guy? Because whatever he did, she opened herself up to it. She accepted him and stayed with him for a year. She needs to figure out for herself why she did that. She needs to take appropriate responsibility for being in the relationship she participated in. You as would-be suitor have no good place in that, because for you it is a minefield. If you go there you risk being the bad guy that does not understand. Try to understand anything else except the last guy; he's poison. That leaves her to grapple with it herself (and with her gal friends). It's not a minefield for the gal friends because they are not looking to date her, so they can't be tainted by their reactions to her talk about the last guy.

PS; This is also a gentle and light hearted opportunity to draw a line in the sand with a girl (set limits). We may protest, but we respect and admire men who can do that with good humor and fortitude. Frankly, it's very sexy when done without whining or anger.

Last edited by MountainLaurel on 10 Mar 2013, 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

This is GOLD here, especially the third line

I absolutely offer the opposite views to mountain laurel. if she's told you she's "Not in the market for a boyfriend right now" that's her way of saying she doesn't want YOU as a boyfriend but some one else will work just fine. Not a way of her saying, If you hang around maybe you could become my boyfriend when I'm looking for one.. It's one of those screwy phrases people use because they ultimately aren't interested but maybe kind of want to keep getting the emotional and financial boost you give due to them not outright saying "no".

And beyond that, if what you are in the market for is a Girlfriend, then you don't need to waste any time trying to make this one your "friend". In my view it's dangerous to try and gain a female friend out of what you wanted to be a romantic relationship. It basically means you, deep in your mind, will ALWAYS view her as a potential romantic interest because what you want is a girlfriend, and she's a female and she's your friend and hey it could always happen. Well I'm speaking from extremely painful personal experience that you are asking for trouble if you allow confusion to work it's way in.

I don't believe male/female platonic friendships can exist... at least not outside of VERY special circumstances...

This may very well be true, but meanwhile life rolls on. What she thinks now is not necessarily what she will think & feel six months or a year from now. I agree she's dangerous for BrianRuns right now, but he's going to get involved in her anyway, we won't be able to stop that train.

It's wise to avoid getting emotionally involved with anyone within a year of their last break-up. That's when they are healing and are not yet healthy. But almost no one heeds this wisdom.

Also we get over breakups on different timetables. One year is a good benchmark because it's a full cycle of seasons; kind of a gut feeling of a fullness of time. But, I was over one boyfriend the next day after our breakup. I mourned the death of my fiance for four years until I was ready for another man.

Let's not involve in black and white thinking. Life is full of ambiguity and change. BrianRuns is attracted and hopeful. He's gunna give it a whirl. I pointed out a pit fall for him to avoid. He's been crushed many times and can withstand another in his quest if that happens. But if he withholds himself too much, his slim chances are reduced even more. We gamble from time to time because slim chances are what we've got. Sometimes slim chances yield the jackpot.

I gambled once and learned my lesson. from now on I'd rather have a nearly worthless dollar in my pocket than a complete worthless loser lotto ticket in my pocket.

The fact that she emphasised that this was just "professional" means she's not at all interested in you romantically, sorry.

What's so wrong with the "friendzone" exactly? Make a good female friend and if she has any friends who are single and a potential good match, she'll want to introduce you........

Considering what I have said in other posts, there is no problem wiht being friends with someone. It's what happens if one develops feelings and the other can't reciprocate. You lose everything at that point, possibly any mutual friends made.

The point being made obviously from me and other people here, and to make it short and sweet as well:
You can't overthink anything. Just be present and enjoy hanging out with her and she will enjoy your company too. Doesn't have to mean more than that, even in a professional setting.

At the end of the day, I'll do what I can to help her. The main lesson I've learned in life about myself, is that on a personal level, people don't want or need me around. It's as simple as that. I see on facebook, how much other people post on my friend's pages, things like, "Hey what's up," or "We're going out wanna come with," and it's all so alien to me, because it almost never happens. I'm always the one inviting others to things, they almost never extend an invite to me, and when they do I sense it's out of pity, not real friendship.

And when people do want or need me, it's because I have something they want or need, like expertise as a filmmaker for this woman who sees me as someone who can help her, but apparently not someone worthy to be a lover. It's always been like that...I'm valuable only for the skills I have, but as a person I have no value.

Which is fine. At the end of the day I'd rather be a tool (and aware of it) than be nothing at all. Because at least I'm not totally disregarded. If I can serve others, so be it. And I'll keep on doing my work, until the day comes I've made my breakout film, and I'll have finally proven my value and worth. People will see that the shy, quiet "nice guy," actually had in him a creative soul, a genuine, driven quality. And with that success I'll finally find someone who deem me worthy, and I'll at long last have found love, and no longer will I be alone.

aspiemike wrote:

While this formula may seem too simple to be true; it actually is true. It's almost impossible to not enjoy the time spent with someone who is genuinely enjoying your company.

Sometimes I think that's the missing "something" for aspie men who can get dates but who never get any long term interest from women. I suspect that the aspie men are simply not enjoying women while physically present with them.

I don't want to * on your parade here. But when I read the word professional. Then it sounds like there is no 2nd chance to begin with. Maybe focus on getting a date with someone else? I'm no expert and have yet to get someone to go out with me only doing the coffee get-together ritual. best of luck.

Hey brian I think its great that you are trying to help her with her career but theres a big difference between a second chance and someone asking you for professional help.

If you want to help her without expecting her to go out with you in return then go for it but if you are hoping to change her mind through the process of helping her I can do a summary of your next thread in one paragraph:
"Women never appreciate what I do, I helped out this woman getting her feet back on after she ignored me after a first date a year ago and she wont go out with me again. Im doomed to die alone..."

You went out once a year ago and she decided to look elsewhere, thats her loss and she is the one that should approach you if she is interested, otherwise she´ll start worrying about why you are helping her in the first place.

I know you have a hard time finding someone that you connect with but its been a year and almost all of your dates seem to share your interests, have you considered giving a chance to someone that may not share your interests?.
Why am I saying this? most people expect some sort of fun, entertainment on a first date and while talking about your common interests can be a great way to start a conversation anywhere else people expect something beyond that because lets face it, they could talk about their common interests with plenty of other guys and you have to show something that makes you stand out. To someone that isnt into the same things your interests could stand out.

I mean Ive seen you write about competitive running and professional film making most people outside of those fields can find some stories about them fascinating and possibly date worthy(you ask each other what you do, they are likely to start asking questions...)