quasi-NT lady dating a male Aspie; advice appreciated!

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I'm a 33-year-old lady dating a 42-year-old man for the last 7 or 8 weeks who has been behaving in a pretty unorthodox manner (to me), and he recently mentioned that he has Asperger's Syndrome, and I could use a little advice. I don't know if he's been diagnosed; he seems VERY reluctant to talk about it. I know that he recently started seeing a therapist and that he has a lot of social anxiety. I'm not exactly neurotypical--I have an OCD diagnosis from when I was in high school, although my anxiety has calmed down in the last few years, but I find myself becoming more and more anxious as I continue dating this man.

The crux of the issue is that he never initiates dates. Ever. I met him at a small party in early May and we spent the entire evening talking almost exclusively to each other, something like seven hours. His special interests are geography and music (performance), and I majored in classical piano and worked as an encyclopedia editor in the publisher's geography division for a long time, so we had a lot to talk about. It was really exciting, and I thought we had a super strong connection. At the end of the evening, he held my hands and told me he thought I was amazing and that he really wanted to see me again, and I told him I felt the same way and added him as a friend on Facebook. Hoped to hear from him soon.

Then he didn't ask me out! I was surprised, a little disappointed, but I figured he had just had a few drinks or something and didn't like me enough. He did comment on a few things I posted on FB, and once he IMed me to say that he'd gotten me a souvenir on a trip, but he never said "Do you want to [hang out] so that I can give it to you" or what have you. I didn't know he was an Aspie at this point, so I just felt rejected and thought he was being a weirdo, so I didn't pursue him.

A month after we met, he posted on FB that he had a +1 to a party thrown by a local radio station and asked if anyone wanted to go with him. I idly commented that I'd go if I weren't busy that night. He IMed me and said that the party started early and I could probably make it to my prior engagement as well. I said all right and met him at the venue, and we connected REALLY strongly again. After the party, we proceeded to a bar and talked for a few more hours, mostly about music, had a few drinks. (In the weeks since, I've noticed that alcohol does a lot to help normalize his behavior; he's always a little awkward and nervous at the beginning of the evening.) At the end of the night, he held my hands again and said he thought I was really attractive and cool and smart and that he liked me a lot, and I asked him why he never contacted me after we met. He said, "Because I was stupid," or something like that. I told him that that's not an answer, but he didn't actually give me a real one. When I left the bar, he kissed me on the cheek and I kissed him back on the mouth and asked if he wanted to go to dinner in a few days. He agreed, then texted me, apologizing for being too forward. (Kind of cute, seeing as I'm the one who kissed him.)

That date went well, but in the month and a half since, I have made 100 percent of the dates. If I want to spend time with this gentleman, I have to think of a date and then contact him. I rarely hear from him if we're not together; I do all of the work. To me, this is a sign that a man isn't interested in me, and so it makes me want to not contact him. However, when we're together, he gives me very positive signals--he's very smiley and talkative, he tells me verbally how much he likes me, we make plans to travel together, the chemistry is powerful. I admit that he's not terribly affectionate with me until he's had a drink or two, but then he acts more or less normally with regard to affection. A little less affectionate than normal.

I'm so confused, and it's really triggering my anxiety. I asked him about it last week, when I saw him last, and he said something to the effect of "I never initiate plans socially" and "I don't know the rules of dating." As well, one of our mutual friends advised me not to date him "under any circumstances," because he dated a friend of hers briefly and "he acted really weird."

When I confront him on this issue, as gently as possible, and he says things to the effect of "That's just the way I am, and women get really frustrated by it." He seems apologetic about it, but he hasn't changed his behavior. I told him that it hurts my feelings sometimes, and that he's been very unorthodox when it comes to dating, and he seemed very surprised and upset. He said, "I've actually been trying really hard to be normal with you." I have no idea what that means, because he literally NEVER contacts me. He's texted me twice unbidden, both times to send me a link relating to geography. Never written to say he's thinking of me or anything like that.

I've spent a lot of time in the past week or so researching Asperger's Syndrome and trying to figure out if this behavior is typical of Aspies or if I should take a hint and just leave this guy alone. I think he's marvelous and I LOVE talking to him (I don't mind his Aspie rants at all, as we share both of his special topics), and there's fantastic chemistry, and I've told him all this, but I'm getting so hurt by his negligence that I don't know if I should proceed. Although on the other hand, I'm definitely sympathetic to anyone with a mental disorder, as I've had one my entire life. I feel like it would be a huge shame to give up on him. I've been trying to read as much as possible about AS, which brings me here.

Can you folks tell me anything about male Aspies and pursuing women? Should I take him at his word and continue suggesting dates? He's never turned me down, but it's just so nerve-wracking, and it seems unfair that I have to do all the work. I confess that, as a person with OCD, I tend to talk myself out of logical reasoning and I also need a lot of reassurance, so I don't know if an Aspie guy and an OCD girl can make this happen! Have any of you had similar experiences? Any perspectives would be appreciated.

The reason why he possibly isn't the one initiating dates and meeting is probably cause he's had a lot of rejection in the past and probably mulls over what he should do next and examining the situation from every angle to the point where he doesn't know what to literally do next and is overwhelmed to the point where he does nothing. The point that he got you something shows that you were in his thoughts and he wanted very much to make you happy with the gift. He probably just didn't know the best way to give it to you.

He isn't lying when he says that's the way he is, and from the sounds of it he isn't lying about how he feels about you.

Have you ever heard of the saying analysis to the point of paralysis? That's what I think Apies go through especially when it comes to social interaction. Romantic interaction.....it's off the charts.

I think you just have to be patient, and try not to take it personal. He's probably agonizing just as much or even more than you are. Taking into account Aspies seem to fail most when they do the initiating....he probably has a fear of it.

I can relate, I've dated a girl who dated me for hours on each date, never attempted to exit the date, and we used to chat for hours too, but there was ZERO reciprocity in initiating communication: I was always who initiated everything 100% (texting, asking out, ...etc).

Same for the last date I saw twice - for very long dates.

Both cases turned out that they're seeing (dating others)- so for them I was merely just a "1 option" and nothing special - they had no special bond toward me despite the extensive communication.

Keep that in mind: if someone never initiates contact with you, not even to check if you're alive after like a couple of weeks of absence, then you are not on this person's mind in any form or shape.

Sadly, I see that's probably your case too.

Your main concern shouldn't be how unorthodox he is in dating, but whether he's dating others or not and how much you really mean to him.

Ass-burger doesn't prevent him having "I miss her" feelings nor it prevents him to grab the phone to send you a simple 'Hi'.

Have you tried just saying (in a friendly way which it sounds like you are good at doing) that it's his turn to come up with a date, so he should get in touch when he has something in mind? Make it clear that a) you want to see him again, and b) he has to initiate this one. He might appreciate being given "permission" to initiate something with you (or being given instructions on what he is supposed to do).

I am on Round 2 with my Aspie, after we both married other people and got divorced. Round 1 was in our 20s.

First time around, I broke up with him after a year, for multiple reasons. A big one was that it had been 3 months since I'd seen him. I'd been initiating all contact for several months. I called him every week or two to see if he wanted to get together. "No, busy," was always the answer. We too had great chemistry and shared interests, but he never wanted to spend time with me. I felt very neglected, and began to assume he'd lost interest. This was in sharp contrast to his behavior in the beginning, when he'd always wanted to see me, to the point of being clingy. I'd felt secure that he loved me and I had a place in his life. But those days were gone.

After months of neglect, I had no idea what he thought or intended or felt, or what I was to him. I assumed it was over anyway. When I called to break it off, I was surprised that he sounded blind-sided, almost desperate, and begged to come see me. For a millisecond, it was nice - and confusing - to hear him sound like he cared. But I blew it off because it didn't matter. He was a day late and a dollar short. I loved him so much and it killed me to end it, but I'd had enough.

We've had many conversations since then - and I also learned about AS. His behavior is still unorthodox and all over the map, but I'll never doubt his feelings for me again. Once he loves someone, it is as solid and unchanging as a rock. I know from his marriage, that it takes severe, prolonged abuse to erode his love. He doesn't understand that for NTs, it is normal for our emotions to ebb and flow, to change with circumstances and new information. He thinks we are all "phonies," and this is why.

I learned two key things here at WP too.
(1) It was suggested to me that he doesn't know how to have a relationship. To me, that is as natural and automatic as breathing, so the idea that a person could *not know how* blew my mind. But I think that's right: from everything I know about this guy over a period of 17 years - no, he really doesn't know how. One might say, well, he was married for 8 years, but he and his ex barely knew each other. They had "a relationship," but it lacked any depth or meaning. He can't tell me much about her, because he ignored her most of the time.

(2) It was also suggested that he doesn't know that emotions are important in relationships. Again, to me, that's like not knowing how to breathe. But again, I think that's right. He plays it fast and loose with people's emotions, then says people are just out to get him (for no particular reason), or have warped perceptions, or are just prejudiced against his ethnic group. I try to explain to him that people react badly to him because he hurts their feelings, but he's dismissive. He doesn't seem to understand how his words and actions influence how people react to him - and that that is true for everyone.

I think you should take this guy at his word. If you two have a great connection, it would be a shame to let that go. Identify the assumptions, expectations, and inferences we ordinarily take for granted (e.g., if we don't hear from a guy for a month, he's not interested), and drop them. The one assumption I would always keep in mind is, "maybe he doesn't know." So many things I thought were just flat-out bloody freaking obvious, came as real "light-bulb" moments for my Aspie, when he gave me the chance to explain.

I'd say, proceed - IF you are prepared for something totally different from what you're used to. Don't think of it as unfair that you have to do all the relationship work: you're the one who knows how.

My theory is that the guy is subtly trying to send you the following message:

If you initiate all of our interactions then I AM interested in dating you.
If you expect me to initiate any of our interations then I AM NOT interested in dating you.

He cannot say this explicitly as it would be an embarassing and weird thing to say that goes against all social and dating conventions. So he is hoping you will work it out for yourself.

It seems that you will have to effectively be his carer in the social and interpersonal realms. You will have to work out for yourself whether you are happy with this or not.

I don't know, foxfield. I think subtle message-sending is an NT thing. My AS guy is in his 40s too, and he's as subtle as a chainsaw.

If he says it, he means it (unless it's in the midst of a meltdown). If he doesn't say it (a) he's not thinking it, (b) he doesn't mean it, (c) he's afraid of causing offense, (d) he doesn't know it would be a good thing to say it, or (e) doesn't see the point of saying it. That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are many more mental hurdles he must overcome, before something he thinks, comes out of his mouth. I don't try to interpret his silences anymore, because 99% of the time, they're not about me.

OP, I suggest to ask him directly: Why you never initiate contact with me?