Were does all the hate in this sub-forum come from?

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I'm just curious why half the threads in this sub-forum end up turning into gender wars. The other half, well half the comments in those threads end up being either rude, uncomfortable sexual jokes, or just plain cruel things to say. So what happened to all the love in the love and dating forum?

Welcome to the internet.

I have often wondered the same thing. I understand the frustration of some of the posters in not having yet been successful in finding a rewarding love relationship, but it seems like the Haven would be the best place to voice such frustrations.

I would have expected the L&D forum to be a place for getting tips and hints about navigating the world of L&D, not a place for hate and gender wars. Perhaps that's what it should be renamed......

This book, and the culture that grew around it, explains why dating has turned into a gender war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Against_Our_Will

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1031 ... t_Our_Will

From the book, rape is "a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear." and "rape is a crime not of lust, but of violence and power." That book was a gathering point for the every-man-should-be-regarded-as-a-potential-rapist attitude. In the book, Susan Brownmiller builds a case that virtually everything a man does, in relation to women, is a metaphor of rape and an abuse of the same magnitude as rape. While the majority of women are not Brownmiller Feminists, the general population of women has been affected with pessimism toward men and negative default interpretations of what men do. That has become an integral part of western cultures and it's propagating globally.

I purchased my first copy in 1981, when I was in college, and ended up giving it to a guy who was getting ready to propose to his feminist girlfriend - he delayed his proposal indefinitely. Since then, I've bought two more copies and subsequently given them away to needy men. To a Brownmiller feminist, the fact that a man does something makes it an offense, simply because a man did it.

Last edited by SoftwareEngineer on 22 May 2014, 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

It's because some people, rather than blame a particular person for being bitchy or mean or simply not interested in them, blame the entire sex and then over half of their own sex.

Yes, it's a lot of pent up frustration and they are wanting to take it out on somebody, so instead of confronting the girl (or guy) who rejected them they get on here and talk all kinds of s**t about the opposite sex being horrible people.

In terms of dating, the "demand" for men is far lower. Men have to exhibit enough positive qualities to overshadow their negative ones in order to maximize their value. As you can probably guess, men on the spectrum tend to have far too many negative qualities and no clue how to increase their "value" as a potential partner. One of the biggest tragedies about being on the spectrum is being cognizant of what you could have had if you were NT, but never being able to achieve it for reasons beyond your control. You can choose to respond with bitterness or apathy.

What Brownmiller did that was important was debunk the myth that rape is the victim's fault. And it is absolutely true that "rape is a crime not of lust, but of violence and power." Which makes misogyny (violence) and a patriarchal society (power) that much more fraught with danger for women.

However, agreeing with those two premises of Brownmiller does not turn every woman into a slavering, man-hating, knife-wielding, emasculator as you seem to suggest and certainly doesn't warrant the "gender wars" with which this subforum is so ripe.

As has been stated ad nauseum in other threads, the vast majority of women (and men, for that matter) who identify as feminists, are fighting for equal treatment under the law, NOT to subjugate men as women have been subjugated since the beginning of recorded history.

Damn it, I can already sense where this thread is heading...I agree with Eureka13, perhaps the forum should just be renamed. I vote for The Gender War Forum: where you come to obliterate the opposite sex with grenades of repetitive argument and bullets of sexual repression, nice guys need not enter.

Last edited by Aristophanes on 22 May 2014, 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[sarcasm]
You sure seem to like Susan Brownmiller-- I bet her biggest fans didn't even make three purchases; and giving them away to spread the word, not even Jesus had apostles that dedicated.
[/sarcasm]
But in all seriousness my point wasn't to get into yet another tired gender war...It was more to get people to, ya know, help other people in this forum since that's what most posters are here for. It was more of a rhetorical question...but here we are, sigh.

There is a lot of failure, frustration, and pain surrounding this topic even for very socially adept NTs. Even more for us.

That comes out here. A lot.

From where I'm sitting, "good advice" about relationships for an Aspie often ends up being painful, bitter, and unpleasant.

It's just frustration. Frustration that people don't listen, frustration that people don't want to face reality, frustration that people wish to blame other people for their problems and then have the nerve to ask for help, frustration that everyone takes the "side" of women in a guilty way instead of an egalitarian way, frustration that there has to be sides, and frustration that forum discussions have to go on indefinitely or else they aren't discussions, which means resolutions can never be arrived at, which is why nobody listens, because listening would compromise their "freedom of speech".

If a guy posts that he can't keep a girlfriend because maybe he texts her too much, or because she doesn't like that he won't shower, or that she wants him to take her out but he doesn't want to go out and if somebody posts to him that he should compromise and do those things for her sometimes then thats not taking the "side" of the woman. That's actual common sense.

If a guy posts that he can't get a gf because of poor social skills or some other thing, and somebody posts small suggestions he can do to improve the situation, thats not taking the side of the woman. That's actual common sense.

When women have posted here about dating problems, I've seen other women tell them what they were doing wrong with suggestions on how to fix it just as often as I have seen them post to men about how to fix it. That's not taking the side of the man. That's actual common sense.

The problem seems to be that so many guys end up with such a defeatist attitude that when somebody gives them a small and actually doable thing that could help a little bit, even though it won't fix the problem 100%, they immediately bite your head off and talk about how it won't work because women only want this one particular kind of guy, which if it were true then about 90% of guys in relationships wouldn't be in relationships. I say guys because it's mainly guys who post here complaining about not being able to get girlfriends and then refuse to try anything at all that's suggested. I really only remember one girl who posted a lot and who ignored the advice and wouldn't listen to other people. It's mainly guys.

Then you have guys who want to blame all women because they can't get a date. They will tell you up front "I have a, b, c, and d wrong with me and I do e, f, and g. I wish I didn't but I do. Girls won't talk to me. I can't get a girlfriend. Thats because feminism has ruined women and if there were no feminists I could get a girlfriend easy". Where the hell that argument comes from I have no clue, but I've seen quite a few guys use it. Then the guys who just come out and say "Women are selfish, golddigging b*****s and I hate them all because none of them like me" when I'm pretty sure if they just tried sincerely working on some things, and also changed their attitude, or at least how they come across to the ladies, then they could get a gf.

No girl in her right mind is going to go out with a guy she can tell is bitter and hateful. No girl in her right mind is going to go out with a guy she can tell is going to be so needy that she can't take a piss without texting him first to let him know where she is. No girl in her right mind is going to date a guy who constantly complains about how the world and everybody in it is unfair to him. No girl in her right mind is going to date a guy who doesn't want to put forth any hard work to get what he wants but wants everything given to him because he thinks he deserves it.

I'm not saying that all guys here can become some Mr Smoothy McSmooth Don Juan Jr or anything like that at all. I'm just saying that everybody, no matter who you are, can improve somewhat. Even if it's not enough to get the girl you want, or any girl for that matter, it is an improvement and should make you feel better about yourself. Feeling better about yourself and raising your self esteem causes improvement as well, so that would double their chances of success. But it seems like most guys here would rather b***h about not having any self esteem than do something to actually get some self esteem.

And I know all about being kicked around and frustrated so much that things seem hopeless. I may have had success in dating and such but I understand the frustration about so many other things that are just as important. I've been hopeless about many things in my life, and when I was, I had two choices. I could either do something to try and fix it or just accept it and be miserable. I did things to try and fix it. Sometimes they worked, sometimes they didn't. Sometimes lots of things didn't work and I just had to accept it and be miserable. But the thing is, I did something.

Things like take a shower, or practice talking in a mirror and see how your facial expressions are coming across, or record yourself talking so you can hear how you sound and work on tone and inflection, or record yourself walking so you can see how you look and work on that, etc seem to be to some guys like I'm telling them to go to the gym and within a week become Mr Universe without steroids. Yes, I know that doing the things themselves may be hard, but practicing to do them and practicing better ways of doing them isn't hard. Nobody even freaking sees you but you when you do it! But thats never an option, is it? It could lead to realizing that maybe you have been doing something wrong and thats why you didn't get a date and then you'll feel bad about those wasted years, so why subject yourself that, huh? Even if it does actually help.

Thats why there's so much hate, cause people want to blame an entire sex.

I have a lot of trouble with my husband. I've posted about it. You know who I blame though? Him. I don't blame all the guys in the world and say all guys are alike! They aren't. I don't say all guys like only one thing, etc, cause they don't. That would be ridiculous if I did, wouldn't it? It really would. Just like blaming all women, or feminism, or even the phase of the freakin moon on the fact that you don't have success with women.

Thats why.

Brownmiller Feminism in now a reality of dating and relationships. In her book, Brownmiller makes some valid points. However, she expands those points to include all men and all women. That is, she absolutely extends and magnifys the behavior of a few to an entire group. And, a lot of women buy that - more and more with every generation. So, in my opinion, every man who ventures into the world in search of a woman with which to have romance should be very familiar with Brownmiller Feminism - both it's areas of accuracy and areas of incredible prejudice. As I said above, while the majority of women are not Brownmiller Feminists, the general population of women has been affected with pessimism toward men and negative default interpretations of what men do.

I think its bad experiences in the past from both sides.

In a way, I think you are right. 1977 was the year that Brownmiller Feminism became widely popular. The next generation of women grew up with the pessimism toward men and negative default interpretations of what men do. Then, the following generation of young men grew up expecting women to have pessimism toward them and negative default interpretations of what they do. Usually, an experience that is open to interpretation ends up a bad experience, because of negative interpretation. And, so on, and, so on.

Of course it's always the women's fault, just like when they're being raped. Certainly they did something to deserve it.