Were does all the hate in this sub-forum come from?

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I don't understand what the problem is here. Hopper and starvingartist have been quite articulate about it. Women do not exist for your viewing pleasure, and if they have not invited you to comment on their looks, then don't. Do not intrude on their privacy by barging in and telling them how much you enjoy looking at them. And if you're staring, stop.

Women are subject to the same rules when it comes to men (and women). I absolutely cannot walk up to men I work with and start talking at them about their looks, and doing something like that at male students would be a fast invitation to dismissal. Same would apply to women, should I be inclined to stare.

If you were to do that sort of thing at work in the US, and you were a boss, you'd be leaving yourself open to a lawsuit for creating a hostile work environment. Which you would indeed have created. If you did that while working in a large corporation and enough murmurs and complaints reached HR, you'd be swiftly disciplined and then, if you didn't shape up, canned, because you'd be a walking liability for the company.

I don't know what you're driving at. How would complimenting acquaintances lead to a sexual-harassment lawsuit? As I stated before, I don't randomly go up to women to offer compliments.

I would be shy, flabbergasted, etc. should a woman come up to me with compliments (it hasn't happened)--but I wouldn't feel perturbed in the least.

I don't believe women exist for "my viewing pleasure." In fact, my ideal relationship would be akin to the one between Mary Wollstonecraft and the philosopher who was (I believe) the father of Mary Shelley of "Frankenstein" fame. I can't recall the man's name right at this time. A virtuous, Enlightened relationship.

I am not of the Patriarchy; people should not attribute the characteristics of the Patriarchy to me--especially without knowing me personally.

you may not be of the patriarchy, as you say, but that doesn't negate the fact that you suffer less oppression than women do being a male in a society that still favours males. you benefit from a patriarchal system just by virtue of being male, and for some reason you seem unable to recognise that. just as i don't choose to be oppressed by a patriarchal society, you don't choose to benefit from it--but you do still benefit. do you see how that works?

Women go to work to do jobs and get paid, not to serve as ogling fodder. In most large companies, at this point, HR will put you through anti-sexual-harassment training so that you know how not to leave other people feeling like they're working with creepsters. Unless that co-worker is a very good friend, you're looking for trouble if you start remarking on his or her appearance. The take-home is "if you don't know where the line is, keep the remark to yourself."

Suppose I were to go to work and tell a faculty member, "Have you lost weight? It looks like you've been working out." This isn't a compliment, because the subtext is, "I am staring at your body and gauging your sexual attractiveness, rather than attending to the business at hand." And that's not welcome. If I were to say to a student employee, "Gosh, what a becoming outfit on you," the subtext is the same, only it's even less comfortable for the student, because I have power over him or her. Even worse if it's not just a student employee, but a student in my class who's receiving a grade from me. And you had better believe I am aware of these things. If a student comes in wearing something unintentionally revealing, I might, as a mother, think, "Dear, cover up," but I'm sure as hell not going to say a word about it to the student, because that means I've noticed, and am making the student aware that I'm looking at her body. Which would make things very awkward indeed for the student.

And do you know what? It's a good thing. It's horrible to go to work and be subject to all these guys "complimenting" you, leering away. I can't stop them thinking it, but I can certainly stop them intruding on my mental space with it. The same laws make it quite difficult now for gangs of guys to get together at work and start rating women sexually and generally degrading them before going back into the office to work with the very same women. Is there still sexual harassment, yes, but it ain't like the old days.

Oh: more specifically, it's against US labor law to create a "hostile workplace environment", which includes environments in which one can expect sexual harassment, such as unwelcome remarks about one's appearance, body, etc.

No it's not. I once dated this boy who was very, very hot, but he was stupid as all get outs. I couldn't stand to talk to him, and as it turns out he wasn't any good in the sack because he had one the size of my little finger. But I never hated him.

Also, if we get into this whole "Let's moderate everything sexist" then half of what I say will be gone. Especially if I use the word girl or lady instead of woman or female. Anything can be construed as sexist by somebody, somewhere.

The guys who say s**t like "Women just like <insert whatever idiotic thing they want to think> and they don't like guys like me" aren't being sexist. They are being bitter and stupid. Guys who b***h about feminists aren't being sexist, they are just trying to find somewhere to put the blame.

It's not sexism, it's stupidity. Sexism would be if they were manager of a company and wouldn't hire women. Sexism would be if they wouldn't give a lady a bank loan.

Do you want to start moderating the remarks about men in general too?

You don't have to. You are free to skip over those posts. You aren't forced to read anything. Nobody has a right to not be offended. Everybody has a right to be stupid. I'm sick of reading and hearing PC BS everywhere I go, but you don't see me telling people to censor it. I just answer them back. That's what you should do too.

Fight your own battles. You actually have a chance of winning that way.

It's kind of ironic though isn't it? Feminism teaches that we can do what men can do and are equal to them. Why is a feminist asking a man to make the other men stop hurting her feelings?

what do you mean by that?

"Nice tits" is not a compliment. That's jackassery. There is an answer to that statement too. It's "Yeah, they are. Too bad you'll never touch them, needledick! Now go back in the bathroom with your 'Barely Legal"!"

I complment my friends and people I know all the time. I even compliment strangers. There's nothing wrong with that. I don't say "nice tits" though. As I said before, that's not a compliment.

Are we so f*****g PC now that we can't compliment people because we have different genitals???? Come on now.

isn't that exactly what i'm doing, with the post i made yesterday in women's discussion--fighting my own battles? looking for allies, certainly, but trying to take action to create positive change--does that not qualify as standing up for myself?



first of all not all the moderators are male, i believe--secondly, the creator of the site is the only one who can make policy changes, and he happens to be male. there is no need for you to be so rude.

Sounds like a personal problem to me, and not the problem of the entire female sex. I'm not at all pretty and I don't mind a compliment, or when other people get compliments. You, on the other hand, are pretty, if that's you in your avatar. Uh oh, I'm gonna be objectifying now or something.

Don't project all your problems off onto the rest of us just because a few people feel like you do. I hate sexists just as much as you do. I just happen to deal with them directly rather than run to somebody else to do something about it.

so now you're going to tell me how i'm supposed to deal with the sexual harassment i encounter when i go out--this is rich. who the f**k are you to tell me i should feel safe enough to speak back to men in public when i am alone? and how do you know how many times i have spoken back in such circumstances only to be threatened physically? how do you know how many times i've been followed home at night by strange men, and how i dealt with that? just who the f**k do you think you are?????

If a strange man gave me a compliment, it would make my day. Or a strange woman. It's the same with most of the other ladies and girls I know.

It's nice to be told you are pretty or that somebody likes something you are wearing!

Try living in an environment where you never, ever have to put up with this kind of s**t, or bother fighting with it, and I bet you won't go back.

when my father tried to hit me the first time, i never back down from him, and i have yet to back down from a man since--that doesn't mean i think i should have to spend the rest of my life not backing down from men who threaten me because they can't help themselves or whatever BS excuse you're going to offer up next. stop trying to call my a coward sideways, you don't know me or my history.

(edit* the first time my father tried to hit me was also the last time, because i promised him if he ever laid his hands on me again i would kill him--and i meant it. he believed me.)

Last edited by starvingartist on 23 May 2014, 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thats not what you're asking Alex to moderate. You're asking him to moderate comments you find sexist.

So, is all this about some guy saying "Nice tits" and you not saying something back? Is this your way of making yourself feel better about not answering?

If we have comments moderated for sexism, then we need a panel of women to define the parameters for that before it becomes "If a female complains, remove it".