Emotional and intellectual conflict in dating

Post Reply New Topic

I think I have understood why I seem to be unable to find love.

I have this conflict between my intellect and my emotions.



On the one hand, my emotions tell me that I love those that treat me well, i.e. that are "good-natured" people.

On the other hand, I intellectually realize that NTs are right that superficial values like looks, money, well-paying job, popularity, etc. etc. is what really counts in the end.


I mean, I understand intellectually that I am fooling myself by neglecting these superficial "NT-factors" in finding a date.

But at the same time, I have no true feelings toward these things.


The fundamental problem is that I am not a social being. All these superficial things are tied up on a social view on the world, i.e. the desire to fit in.

I have no real desire to fit in - that is the problem really.


But the better a person is doing socially, the worse are they going to treat me, because they expect similar standards (which is all fair!).


Do I have to accept that a relationship always in the end will be a power struggle?

I find that if I do not "fight back" on the dating scene, I will just devaluate myself on the dating-market.


This is also a matter of how I view myself.

Is aspergers a developmental disorder? Or is it a personality trait that makes me a quite caring individual? I.e. should I be "cured" or not?

Intellectually I should be cured (viewing it socially). Emotionally I should not because I value genuineness not superficiality.

This has been an ongoing dilemma in me so long I can remember. How do you solve it?

maybe the crowd you're involved with is not very mature and believes the BS others feed them? Everyone tries to figure out this social thing on their own. The ones that are truly free are the ones that see BS for what it really is... BS.

Fact is, if you're over 18 and out of school, you can't reasonably expect a girl to be interested in you romantically if you don't have the means to support yourself. That includes financially, socially (no girl wants to be a guys only friend) and life skills-wise. Saying girls only want rich, popular good lookings guys is a gross exaggeration of this very reasonable fact of life.

Should you sell out to get girls? No, not at all. But it's not selling out to meet someone half way.

Some of the most rude, disgusting, and dependent people in the world are in relationships. There is someone for everyone; maybe not as many will find your traits as appealing as Mr./Ms. Popular's traits, but someone will prefer you. I wouldn't trust a single post trying to teach you "what X really wants", the spectrum of what different people find attractive is enormous. Maybe we are at a disadvantage regarding being in relationships with "normal people"; the common types of NTs who follow societal trends and behaviors, but there are many other types of people than just those.

Maintain some level of hygiene, be yourself, and allow yourself opportunities to meet people - you're not going to be happy trying to be someone else. Italicized part is what I feel many people on this forum seem to overlook - when you're like us and aren't the usual image of what is desirable you have to 'play the numbers game' even more than those who are - you have to allow yourself the chance to find those rarer people who like what is different. We are notoriously bad at this because we don't tend to be social. If you never get out of the house or otherwise have minimal exposure to new people you are not giving yourself ample opportunity to find someone who is right for you.

In this way, you don't need to become someone else, but you do need to push yourself a bit, perhaps finding an activity club on meetup.com or a similar site to find people who are interested in the same things you are - for me it is easier to be around others if we are all focused on a common task like a game, my social anxiety isn't as elevated since I don't feel like people are paying much attention to me personally (in contrast to the 'bar scene' where people are often there specifically to talk to each other). Even if you don't have any romantic interest in people at this kinds of get-togethers, it still helps to train you to be more comfortable around others, and you can potentially have fun in the process.


tl;dr Stop thinking that super-typical NTs are the only ones out there. There are people who like 'different people' and who aren't obsessed with material things and symbols of status, they just take a longer to find - but you won't find them if you always keep to yourself.

Thank you for clarifying that.

But I suppose girls would prefer rich, popular good looking guys if they could get them.

In the end it is all superficial values. "Love" simply becomes a matter of wealth, popularity and good looks.

Thank you. That is good advice.

Relationships just seem to be a matter of this power struggle about "who is better off".

I know that is true, and of course that bothers me quite a bit. Girls demand that you are social which in many ways rules you out of the question when you have AS.

I suppose this is so important to them because they want you to have some amount of "social status"?

"Love" is really more about neurochemistry than anything else. It's why you see "mismatched" couples all the time. We, as sentient beings, have the ability to overrule our brain chemicals and choose not to get involved with someone no matter how loudly our brain chemicals are shouting at us. Conversely, we have the ability to choose to be with someone with whom we don't have that chemical/physical "connection."

That is where the real conflict comes in - when our intellectually-conceived notions of who is or is not "suitable" are at odds with our neurochemical pathways yelling "THIS ONE! THIS IS THE ONE!"

I think this post is pretty hypocritical coming from someone who admitted in another thread he'd never date a girl who was fat or disabled.

I do not remember I wrote that. I was definitely not trying to come off as hypocritical at all. Sorry if I did. But what you write exactly illustrates my point. Why date a fat or disabled girl if I could get someone "better"? Why should anyone date me when I have AS if they could get someone "better"?


My point is that in the end, because dating is a social act, it all eventually is about superficial qualities.

My problem is that I do not genuinely feel this is love. I feel there should be more to loving someone than how successful they are in life.

But to me it seems like the more you believe there should be more to love than success the more naiive you are. That clearly shows me how naiive I have been for so long.

So I guess "true love" is finding someone who is both "suitable" intellectually, but also neurochemically?

Does it have to be this power struggle/pecking fight?

It was in this thread: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5889630.html

arielhawksquill, I am glad you write this, because I need to figure this out.

I just wonder how this relates to the original question asked in this thread? I mean I feel the issue with finding love is an emotional and intellectual conflict, not that of accepting the low social status of having AS. I still have the conflict even when I accept my "league", i.e. should I love my partner for their league or for their good intentions towards me. I emotionally feel love is the latter, but my intellect says it is the former, because believing it is the latter is incredibly naiive to think. And so love only becomes a matter of my partner's league, but I do not feel I have genuine feelings towards this superficial status. So it's like:

Emotionally: Love is a matter of how well you are treated.

Intellectually: Love is a matter of how high your league is.


I mean, I was not socially aware previously, it is an intellectually learned skill, the feelings toward leagues are not innate in me.

Is this hypocritical thinking? I cannot figure this out right now.

I went to a dance exactly one time during my school years... I remember that she was wearing a midnight blue dress, and slowdancing with Brooke was the most intimate and special feeling I have ever had, before or since. If you've seen the newer version of "Pride & Prejudice," it felt like the one dance scene when everyone else in the room vanishes and it is only the couple that exist in that moment.

I personally have discovered or decided that this is my favorite thing about a romantic relationship... everyone else in the world is on the outside, and you and your current partner are absolutely free to create that relationship yourselves, and free to be to each other what the two of you decide to be. Nobody makes the rules but you and your partner in the relationship... and there is no limit to the kinds of relationships people come up with. If our fingerprints are perfectly unique, then how much more variety must there be in the ways that two perfectly unique people can decide to do a relationship?

So when I hear you talk about the superficial values such as looks or money or status as being what "really" counts... well I mean it isn't that you're wrong about what you've observed in the world. But at the same time, those standards only seem to matter to us observers because lots of people choose to care about them. That doesn't mean you have to also care about them... and it certainly doesn't mean every woman cares about them either. So in your own case, all it requires is to find one person (or one at a time, maybe) who has a compatible enough set of standards and values that the two of you can "dance" for a while, to continue the metaphor.

So the solution that I would suggest is to remain introspective, as you clearly have been doing, and decide within yourself what you truly DO value and care about. I would personally recommend that if you find you don't care for basic hygiene or for being able to support yourself financially... it would probably just be generally healthy for you to find a way to value those things. You will be more independent and in the long run I think you will be happier if you can care for your body and stand on your own feet financially. Those things will allow you the freedom to live life the way that you would like to live it. And as someone already said, those two are pretty basic expectations in a mate, temporary or long term.

Aside from those two, if you genuinely don't care about something that people seem to value, then that is actually a treasure, and a gift that you are personally blessed with. You say you don't care about fitting in? Well I don't either. I have learned HOW to fit in, but being able to do so has also taught me how powerful and valuable it is to be able to do what you know is right, or wise, and not to be paralyzed with worry about how people are going to think of you afterwards, or about whether you might lose some social status. And along with that one example of a strength you may have... there are also women and men out there who understand the value of strengths like that. To use myself as an example, I have always admired and been attracted to women who seemed able to rise above that need to try to make everybody like them. There is an independence that comes with not needing to try to fit in, and I find it attractive whenever I see a girl showing that independence. It is such a blessing to be different, because that makes you special... and there is absolutely someone who will put a high value on that specific kind of special. It's just about looking, waiting, and communicating, until you find that person and it seems to be panning out with whatever dancing you two decide to do.

I think that the very best person you can try to become is precisely just you. To try to make yourself jump through the hoops society just made up... well I would call that tragic. Personally I would rather you keep on with being yourself, because anybody can pretend to be normal (more or less), but there is nobody else who can be genuinely and honestly YOU. And odds are there are women not so far away who are waiting for exactly the kind of person YOU are, waiting for you just to come walking through their world. I hope all that makes sense... I know I said quite a bit

Personally, I think love is a matter of how well you treat others. But I also think that you have to learn to treat yourself well before you can treat others well. Or, as the saying typically goes "you have to love yourself before you are truly capable of loving others."

Forget about leagues - that's a societal construct. What would YOU value most in a partner? Honesty and kindness? Or looks and social status? Do you want a partner for who she is or for what she can do for you?

Seriously, you don't see the hypocrisy in saying "I want someone who will love me for non-superficial reasons! No fat chicks, though"? If you don't see the conflict there, I can't make it any plainer for you.