Being friends first

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One of my female friends said to me the other day that there is no real difference between going on a date with someone and meeting up with someone to be friends, except that with the date both parties are romantically interested (or potentially interested) in each other. The general consensus of my friends who have been married for a while is, "The strongest relationships are from those who were good friends first and then dated later".

Given that, why is being friends first such a bad thing? Wouldn't it be better to date them after you've seen them being themselves for a while, rather than on "best behaviour" to impress you?

Well, one good reason is that if you start as friends and really get along, that friendship is lost if you split up.
I got involved with my best friend. We got along so well, it really felt like a magical friendship. But the relationship that followed was poor and we fought a lot. Afterwards we both wanted to stay friends, but there was so much resentment on both sides we kept fighting and after one big fight we stopped talking. I would much rather have kept the friendship. It was far more worth.

My advice is never get with a friend unless you are okay with that friendship ending. Very few are able to stay friends if the relationship fails. There is also the potential fallout if you have common friends.
When it does work out, I'm sure it's wonderful. But when it doesn't you lose your friend.

I intended to stay friends with my ex's but it didn't work out. I am sure my ex was sincere when he said we will always be friends even if our relationship doesn't work out and it turns out it didn't work out as friends either. My mom once asked me "Why do you talk to these guys? They're jerks, move on."

Yeah I agree that it's good to get to know someone for who they are without the pressure of "dating" however the problem is as others have pointed out that once you take the friendship into a new kind of closer romantic relationship you may find that it doesn't last and your friend is lost.

On the other hand it might work out and you've made a really good decision.

I find the problem is working out whether the man likes me back. If I tell him I want to be more than friends and he doesn't then I've made our friendship awkward and it may not go back to the way things were.

But then if he likes me back, hypothetically speaking, then it's a win win situation.

Honest truth, no one can really know how things are going to work out. You have to decide whether the risk is worth it.

For me, most of my girlfriends were friends of mine before we got the idea to date. So, making friends of the opposite sex can lead to a relationship.

Starting off as friends is very important if you want a relationship with someone. If there's any physical contact short of a short hug on a first date, that contact usually becomes the entire basis of the relationship. It's usually never, when do I see this person again, I want to take them out again. It becomes, when do I sleep with this person, what should I do to get to sleep with this person? It really does make a big, big difference in getting to know someone. And other than that, I personally don't think you can truly love someone until you know them inside and out, flaws and all - people want to rush feelings, and I've found it's to fill a void in their lives. It's unnatural and wrong in my honest opinion.

It's not a bad thing.

It's whether or not you get "friend zoned".

The difference between getting to know someone as friends and "friend zoned", is with "friend zoned" you never HAD a chance. meeting someone and being friends with them, there is always that grey area.

Often it depends who you go for what league you both appear to be in.

Yup, sad, but true.

I don't see why it IS such a bad thing. I've had a lot more bad dating experiences than good ones, and for me the few good experiences I had were the ones that actually mattered.

One particular bad dating experience I had was with a girl who seemed more preoccupied with what her friend (who didn't really know me that well) had to say than actually getting to know me. It was terribly frustrating. I'd briefly dated the friend, you see, and I didn't know up to that point how temperamental she could be. These two ended up trashing me behind my back on a regular basis, and it was steady 24/7 drama. She called me up to break up with me, and I was, like, "ok bye." I was DONE.

Later on in life I figured out a way around that, which basically meant including close[r] friends in my dating pool. As long as girls I was remotely interested in were all part of the same group, I had a better chance of getting a date without one or two of them freaking out about how weird I am, or whatever. Instead, it's like, "Oh yeah, I know him! He's a little off, but he's nice. You'd make a great couple!" It takes a little time to build up that kind of friend network. Relationships last longer when friends and family are supportive.

My problem was I had a TON of trouble navigating those kinds of crowds. The way I met my wife was WAY opposite of that previous experience I mentioned. I'd just broken up with my fiancée when one of her bridesmaids showed interest in me. My ex was the last to figure out a breakup was imminent because her friends all knew me before they met her. While they were always validating her, I learned later on they never really understood where all the trash talk was coming from. They knew if they were honest with her, she wouldn't listen. So it was kind of weird how we met, but my wife got to know me from hanging out with us, and by extension I got to know several more of HER friends and they were all nice people. They never gave me a hard time, never gave her a hard time about going out with me, except maybe some weirdness from her roommate? But after a few months, I'd been in and out of another relationship and my wife and I had known each other casually for some time by this point. We helped each other through a really rough situation, from epically failed relationships to deaths in the family. We were on-again/off-again for some years after that. In the end, we just couldn't stay away from each other, and we figured it would just be stupid crazy NOT to get married.

We've been together almost 15 years and have three kids, with the occasional scare every other month or so, and are still best friends. So?yeah?friends first. It's a good thing.

I think you have to kind of understand going in WHY you are starting as friends. Plenty of people get "friend zoned" because, well, you just aren't that attracted to them, or they don't meet things you are sure you want in a romantic partner. And that is very different from starting a friendship because you want to get to know someone more before making decisions, or because you aren't in a situation where you feel comfortable dating, or because you just are choosing to remove that level of pressure.

Back in the day I had guys in both groups that I hung out with at times.

I think this might be a generational difference. Among the Baby Boomers and early Generation X, being friends first was practically the norm. Consider this. A boy and a girl hang out regularly in a malt shop (Boomers) or a shopping mall (Gen X). They meet frequently, talking about school and their likes and dislikes. The guy treats the girl to a milkshake. Over time, she sees him in a different light, and takes a liking to him. They go for a drive by the lake or to a movie, where they kiss. Relationship! Teenage sitcoms, written by these very generations, often heavily reflect this mindset. Think of Cory and Topanga in "Boy Meets World", Steve and Laura in "Family Matters", and <groan!> Ross and Rachel in "Friends". All their successful relationships started of as platonic friendships. There are subplots of straight-off relationships in those shows, but they're never successful.

Among the late Generation X and Millennials this is radically different. Due to the PUA literature flooding the internet, and to a lesser extent, paper books, the social mindset changed. Nowadays, "friends first" is viewed as a fast track to the friend zone, and many guys are reluctant to be friends with a girl prior to dating her. Even the expression "friend zone" is a household terms nowadays, and it seen as something to be avoided like the plague. Exceptions include but aren't limited to childhood friendships, friends' sisters, and girls they're not strongly interested in. (The last one means they have the same view toward her that most women today have toward nice guys.) Therefore, there is pressure to avoid all forms of platonic friendships, preferring to start interacting romantically right away, which often means getting physical as quickly as possible. So there you have it.

My wife and I were friends first - she's a late boomer and I'm an early Gen-X'er.

We've been married over 20 years now.....

There are a wide number of reasons that friends might not make good lovers (though there's an equal or greater number of reasons why they do).

As stated above, the biggest issue is that you run the risk of losing your good friend. Say you date a good friend and break up. Now the friendship becomes awkward and, unlike Seinfeld suggests, many people can't handle the transition back to friendship well. Either the problems they had as a couple rip them apart or unresolved feelings make things weird (imagine going back to friendship and hearing that their new bf/gf is the best kisser they've been with. Wouldn't that sting a little?).

Another reason depends on how good of friends you are with the person and the type of person they are. Imagine telling your friend all about your relationships, looking for advice and a shoulder to lean on then suddenly you're in one with them. Some will use that information against you (though a lot will use it to avoid such issues). For example, my friend dated his best friend and she was always badgering him about his exes ("C'mon, you imagining Stacy when you kiss me?", "I'm not like Brenda!"). It eventually broke them up and they stopped being friends.

But in all honesty, I've known people who were good friends and made even more excellent couples. Being friends first means you get to know the other person well and you're, at least somewhat, compatible with the other person (otherwise you wouldn't have become friends!). Friends who date tend to make each other laugh a lot more and are happier together, at least from what I've seen around me. And friends tend to know each other's nuances better so they don't agitate each other (or purposely do it if you want to look at it that way).

^^^Well, if an intimate relationship ends the friendship, it wasn't a very substantial friendship to begin with, was it? I'd generally advise against getting THAT attached to someone who is "just a friend."

But, then I look at who I married?lol

Hmmm, it's generally thought that the term "friendzone" came from an episode of Friends were they guys thought that Rachel had friendzoned Ross. So if the Baby Boomers wrote Friends then they in fact invented the "friendzone."

"Friends" started in 1994, when most Millennials were still too young to work for a TV show (in technical or writing roles, not actors). So it was the Baby Boomers that introduced the term "friend zone". However, the PUA authors, who were usually Generation X (and now Millennials too), popularized that term, and planted fear of it among their generations. Because those generations are heavy internet users, the word spread very quickly. It has spread worldwide, and languages other than English now have their own equivalents of the term "friend zone": either reproduced verbatim (albeit pronounced in their own way) or calques of it using their words for "friend" and "zone".