Fertility treatment on the NHS

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Do you think that it a good thing that NHS pay for IVF treatement. Do you think IVF compromise the health of the child because if I woman has fertility problems, it must be down to imperfect genes. Would the child also inherit the same fertility problems also. Do you think that the NHS is aware that buy paying for IVF treatment they are supporting survival of the weakest. The reality is you cannot mess with mother nature that way.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/fertility/b ... ess1.shtml

Leaving aside the genetic argument for this first paragraph, I think it's disgusting that my taxes are used to fund fertility treatment when in some parts of the country people are left to die because the NHS won't pay for drugs to treat things like cancer. Those who get this fertility treatment are incredibly selfish, IMO. If people want it, they should pay for it themselves.

As for your genetic argument, you could apply the same reasoning to a lot of conditions that are treated more effectively these days. You could also apply it to people with severe disabilities who are more likely to survive, and be in a position to reproduce because of our more enlightened view of the place these people have in society. Of course, you could also apply it to people with autistic spectrum disorders. I'd expect you are right in that in doing this we are creating the potential for these various problems to become an even greater burden for successive generations.

Infertility is usually not due to genetic flaw. It is usually due to biological processes that began later which are not genetic. Many things can cause hormonal upset, ovary problems, scarring of the fallopian tubes, endocrine imbalance, problem sustaining the embryo, etc., which are not genetic at all. Stress, environmental factors (even such as pollution) and past disease can play a factor. Often the cause is unknown.

I'm not sure where you got your information. It almost sounds as if you are saying women who have fertility trouble should not reproduce anyway. That isn't true, and even if it were, it would not be more so than anyone else with a health problem or who was 'different'. So I am surprised to see this in a forum to do with neurological differences.

As for whether Britian's NHS should pay for it, I have no opinion on that.

Chav,


To my knowledge, endometriosis (the so-called scarring, but is not actually that), benign fibroids, tipped uteruses and other such things don't compromise the child. Actually having a child helps the two former. Those two tend to happen in women who put off having children, but not always. If it harms the child, I've never heard of it and I've known quite a few women who had babies (without fertility treatment) with those conditions. I'm not certain about tubal pregnancies and pregnancies where the woman has trouble sustaining a pregnancy, whether those are passed on traits or not. They might be possible although I had a friend who lost both tubes to tubal pregnancy and it isn't in her family. Maybe that is more of a spontaneous physical deformity in which the tube is somehow changed to allow that to happen. In that case, the embryo spontaneously aborts and there is no child.

Actually, I think the biggest users of fertility treatments here in the States (and probably most of the industrialized world based on trends) are women who wait until they are in their mid to late 30's to have children. Some even into their 40's. Here, most insurance won't even cover most of fertility treatment. What happens if you wait is that the eggs, which are made while you are still a baby become older and more fragile, making fertilization and implantation difficult. Twins are also much more likely. However, unlike the past, that doesn't have much effect on the children from an overall statistic.

The overwhelming number of couples I see seeking fertility treatment fall into that last category and I've read in many places where they account for the huge spike in fertility treatments. Those aren't factors that are genetically caused at all. It's more of a natural breakdown in eggs that would occur in any woman. That's just a social trend where people put off having children for many reasons. Men are just as likely to want to do that as women.

As for your NHS paying for that, I would have a problem with that piece of it. That's a choice and if they choose to wait, they are going to pay a hefty price (my best friend spent $30,000 of her own money because she waited until her late 30's and it never worked). I think NHS should treat it the same way, but then you'd pay for the beauracrats to sort that out.

Frankly, it's six of this, half dozen of the other to me. I don't have kids, so I don't think I should be contributing to schoools, etc. for them. But, I don't get a say because most voters have kids and that's just the way it is. I just live here and have my money sucked out of me like I have a bunch of leeches on me. That's probably how most tax payers feel about something or another. I am sure I'm not alone, just have a different area where I feel like that. So, should the money go to fertility instead of cancer, no, but it does. We should never put getting pregnant over saving a life, but it sounds like there they do. You just have to realize you can't fix all of this in your lifetime and let alot of it go. Otherwise, it is going to drive you crazy and it won't change a thing.

Actually I have fibroids and they can prevent one from getting pregnant and having children didn't help with them unfortunately, only menopause helps them stop growing. I've had fibroids removed and now have more and I've had two children. I've also had to have 2 c-sections due to the fibroids causing issues.

Mish,


I had seven fibroids and a hysterectomy because of it. My Gyno was the one who told me (and studies I read backed him up) that they are more commonly seen in women who wait to have children and that often having children alleviates the problem. Now, you are younger than me, so it could be that the studies have found out more since then. That is possible. I know for me the reason they happened was because I was producing almost no Estrogen, but since I didn't want kids, that wasn't pertinent to Chav's discussion. I don't think he was really concerned with people like me.

Zanne

I was diagnosed with uterine fibroids at 24-25 years of age. It was during fertility testing and all with an ex-fiance and all that we found them and all.

Im sorry Chav but it simply is not true that those things harm the child inside. A tipped uterus merely means that it tips at a slightly different angle. Nutrition, health etc. help a growing baby but the angle of the uterus does not matter. A few generations ago they thought it caused infertility but it does not even affect that. So that is a myth.

Fibroids dont harm the child but if they are inside the uterus and continue growing during the pregnancy they can crowd out the child. But with a careful doctor's care that isn't likely. Hopefully the mom would have good prenatal care.

Endometriosis is actually improved during pregnancy. This is one reason the BC pill is often prescribed for that condition. I have not heard of it harming the baby either.

As for biological preference, not everyone wants kids so not all men choose fertile wives or want to. But I am not arguing against that position outright.

Yes, I have read before, that men are usually drawn toward the hourglass shape because a smaller waist can mean more fertility. (I don't even have to click on the link.)

How does that prove that infertility in a woman harms a fetus?

When I was pregnant with baby J, I had a very large cyst on my ovary that had to be removed while pregnant. When I was hospitalized, the doctor at the hospital wanted me to abort him- to which I said 'NO!'
I left the hospital against medical advice, and went to another doctor who waited until the placenta had established to do the surgery. Baby J is healthy and wouldn't have made it without that second doctor.

Since having Baby J, I haven't been able to get pregnant again. My hubby and I have tried for more than a year and we haven't been able to get pregnant. I had Baby J at 25... and they have found no reasons for the cause of the infertility. The only thing they have found is some scarring on one of my fallopian tubes- but that alone shouldn't stop me from being able to get pregnant.

I was offered the choice to try fertility treatments but I personally don't want to go with fertility treatments now. But, maybe next year when my son starts school, we may re-consider.

Beauty I am glad you found another doctor. Your first doctor sounds HORRIBLE. There is NO reason to abort a baby because of removing an ovarian cyst! That is a completely different location!

Have you checked whether you might have PCOS? That can cause cysts. Also your hormones might be out of whack from having a baby...If you have PCOS there is a website called www.soulcysters.com with some home remedies...Keep in mind this is all 'caveat emptor', I'm not a Dr. and they're not either...just people who have tried stuff and say what worked for them.

Good luck!

My sister in law had unexplained infertility for 10 yrs., then suddenly became pregnant, without any extra 'help' from doctors. I personally think it happened because they moved away from the city, got a nice big house and she could relax for once! Also I wonder if HE was more relaxed/happy too...I just think our bodies work better when we are (contented), I don't want to get too graphic.

i don't have pcos... and my hormones are all normal.
I *knew* that I'd have problems getting pregnant from even before I got married. (There was no explanation behind my thoughts) It was a complete surprise when I got pregnant with Baby J. From the first day I found out I was pregnant I referred to Baby J as my miracle baby. We went through so many struggles with the surgery and the bed-rest and even a knot in his umbilical cord- but he's here and he's happy and healthy.

I really hope that once things settle down we'll be able to have another one- but for now, we've stopped trying. Trying was causing way too much stress and putting a strain on our marriage. We might try again next year though.