3rd Date's the Charm

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I want to get some input here (from women preferably), since in many ways I'm at a loss to fully explain the cause of my dating difficulties. What happens to me is this: I go out on a first date with someone, and we both have a decent enough time, and usually agree to see each other again. I see these more as just getting to know who the other person is, so it's usually pretty casual. We meet up for a second date around a shared activity, and we both have an amazing time - at the end my date will typically say, often extremely enthusiastically, how great of a time she had and suggest we do it again soon. Then, we meet up for a similar third date, have seemingly as good of a time, but then I get rejected soon afterwards.

What I can't figure out is this: what can someone really learn about you that makes date 2/3 so different? I'm the same person on both of them, we both engage in similar activities and seemingly have as good of a time. I guess that I feel like going in to a third date, they already have a good enough feel for me to know who I am, how I look, and what I'm like - I just can't figure out what makes their opinion change so dramatically over the course of it. I say that because it's extremely clear to me on many of my second dates that there is a high level of interest there, but it seems to completely vanish so quickly the next time we meet. I can tell the exact moment when it happens usually - I see a sudden shift in their body language where their eyes glaze over, they become more closed-off, and they just appear totally disinterested...once they reach that point I've come to realize it's pretty much hopeless regardless of what I say or do. I know that pretty much halfway through the second date I know enough about them to have a pretty decent feel for how compatible we are, and unless something drastic changes I'll still see them the same the next time we meet. I know that my difficulties with physical escalation have been a big issue for me, but now that I have started doing some of that I honestly notice little if any difference in their responses.

Another thing that bothers me is that all attraction feels so one-sided. I initiate all the contact, make all the plans, make all the advances. I know that it's the guy's role to do this, but I usually see little if any input from the other side. Is this the norm, or is it suggestive that they're not as interested as they often appear? I just seem to never get any positive romantic feedback at all...it's all neutral at best usually. Like, when I look at guides of signs that a woman is interested, such as playing with her hair, making lingering eye contact, or gazing at your lips...I don't think that I've ever seen any of those signs (and I've been watching closely lately).

One possibility is that it is exactly because nothing has changed from the second to the third date, rather than despite it. There may be something that isn't working for her, but she's hoping it's just first and second date jitters, and she'll see the real you soon enough. Then she realises actually this thing is part of who you are and is not going away. I don't know if that's the reason, it's just one idea.

As for making the moves, I don't know what is normal as I've never been a man dating women. But I personally try to make equal effort in terms of saying I had a nice time, suggesting and planning the next date, etc. I'm apparently not great at signalling with body language that I like someone so I'm more likely to just go ahead and kiss them. Or maybe say something.

Yeah, don't wait for her to make the moves or to tell you it's ok to start making moves (or whatever) society says you're the one that's supposed to do all the lead in.
She wont know if she wants you to until she sees if she likes it.
In other words she wont know if she wants you to kiss her until she knows how good the kiss is (was).
In other, other words she wont know if she wanted you to kiss her (or anything else) until AFTER you've kissed her, and she can decide if she liked it or not.

If she decides she didn't like it she'll wish you hadn't kissed her and that's just one short step from rationalizing that she had wanted you to NOT kiss her all a long.

That's why guys are kinda screwed.

But that's the way it is, so there's no use complaining about it because nobody knows how to change it all anyhow, and it's kinda fun the way it is -if you go with the flow and realize that superficially all women are different and it wont be long before one is going to convince herself that she likes you.

Think of (almost) literally sweeping her off her feet. Be macho and let her know that you find her acceptable.
What ever you do don't be a pus$y, women already got one of those, give them something they don't have.
(safety, security, strong shoulder to 'lean on' and about 80% of your attention)

How often do you date? What percentage of the women you've been out with stall at the 3rd date mark?

I find that in a best case scenario, if a guy asks me out for a drink & I accept, there's a 50% chance we will both have had enough fun to want to do it again. And if the second date goes well, there's a 50% chance we will both want to do it again. Same 50% chance for the third date.

So it's possible you're not doing anything wrong, that dating is simply a numbers game and you number isn't yet up.



For a first date, I'd say the ball is in the guy's court -- to do the inviting. If I've had fun, I'll say so and suggest we do it again -- and hope the guy calls. If the second date is fun too, I'd be inclined to pick up the phone and call to set up a third date.

I'm not so good at telling what the guy is thinking/signaling non-verbally, so I tend to go by actions - if he's interested, he will call me. If I reciprocate interest, I will promptly return his calls. Life's way too short for games.

Sounds like the women you dated in this case are the traditional type that like the dating game and flirting, and prefer to be wooed and courted. So you either have to get better at this through practice, or find a more laid back woman who is more into you. The above posts also make good points on this.

A genuine interested girl would keep texting you/ trying to talk to talk, I am talking from experience.

When everything is one sided: She's not interested, she doesn't like YOU, she might like the attention you give her but not YOU.

Also in date 2, 3 ....you get more compared with the competition.

I find that girls, unlike us guys, always have way more options (admirers willing to date them) than us.

Far too often lol. I've started to grow very tired of dating and getting to know new people in general...after a while everyone's life stories just start to blend together and sound the same. I find it hard to really get excited about meeting someone promising anymore just because from experience I know that it likely won't work out, so I save myself from getting my hopes up. I'd say that nearly everyone I meet leads to a second date at least, and about 30-40% overall lead to third dates. The people I end up on third dates with are always the ones that I share the most in common with. I've had one that went to 5 dates and another to 4 (out of like ~30 people total), but that's as far as I've managed to go thus far.

I realize that it is a numbers game, but the fact that 90% of the time it's me who gets rejected (and I'm getting into pretty high numbers now) says to me that there is an issue with my behavior that I need to figure out. I've figured out one of my issues (not touching them enough or being physically assertive), but I think that it's not the only one causing me difficulties. I feel like since I do get second/third dates with what seems like the same or even higher frequency than most, I must be doing something right at least...but that just makes it more difficult in some respects to determine what I'm doing wrong.

It does not sound like you're doing anything wrong - your number is not yet up.

Maybe take a break for a bit?? Going in w/negative expectations, expecting rejection, can become a self-fulfilling prophesy.

That does sound pretty frustrating. What age category are you dating in?

You have no idea . I date people from ~24-33 - their age specifically hasn't seemed to make much of a difference. It's more the issue of not knowing why I'm having difficulty that is the worst, because it leaves me with no idea of what I need to do to improve.

I went through a very challenging bout of underemployment not long ago where I felt similarly - I would apply to countless jobs and just get a "you're a great candidate but we found someone who was a better match for us". In that situation I could easily see the cause: I had a niche degree that hadn't gained popularity in the market yet...even though it was the best degree for most jobs I applied to, the people in HR didn't know what it even was. So I went back to school and got the degree that all the employers were looking for. I got my dream job almost instantly after that without really trying, and use almost more of my first degree on the job ironically. I guess I see my dating situation as being almost the same - I honestly feel like I'm a pretty good catch and have been told as such, but there is something about me that is off-putting to my dates, be it my personality, appearance, or certain behaviors. I feel like if I can just figure out what that one thing (or things) are and try to improve upon them, it will be like with my job where many previously-closed doors will suddenly open to me.

This age category seems to be the most challenging for single men. Most of the committed women are already in relationships, and the ones that are available are either too picky or independent. You may consider dating people with a slightly greater age difference, its actually quite common.

Yes, it seems that over-pickiness is the most common reason for involuntary celibacy among women, while lacking the basics like income/social life/other necessities, are the common reasons for involuntary celibacy among men, the over-picky single women would not want them.

Yes, there is some science backing this up too, men tend to be naturally more dependent on relationships.

"Involuntary celibacy"?!?

"Involuntary celibacy"?! Really??

As if you're ENTITLED to have sex w/women simply because you *exist*?! Really?

No, you aren't. Just no. No a million times over. Also, Boo, honey? Your sense of entitlement comes across LOUD and clear in the 40 words you wrote. Women can (usually) sense that sort of thing and (sensibly) avoid you.

Seriously, though Boo, do you really think a woman (who is gainfully employed, has a social life & financially independent is "too picky" for turning down a guy who lacks the same? Has it occurred to you she's looking for an equal partner? And that a guy who hasn't achieved what she has is NOT what she wants?