"You killed the mood by asking."

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Quite frankly, that sentiment is creepy and rapey to me. It is a direct assault on CONSENT ITSELF.

And consent is not just for sexual intercourse, or making out, or "sexual" touch. I believe it applies to ANY AND ALL TOUCH - some people really are that sensitive and don't want to be touched at all. I'm sure quite a few on Wrong Planet can relate to this kind of touch sensitivity.

So basically, she's asking me to ACTIVELY DISREGARD CONSENT and just "make a move" when I "guess" the time is right. I believe that consent based only on body language (which she'll claim to use) is inherently shaky, uncertain and just plain wrong to call true "consent."

EVEN IF I DO SEE THE COME-HITHER LOOK, that alone is not consent to me. It may make me come out and ask, but that's it. All the "look" may mean is she thinks I'm cute. This is particularly likely to happen with a woman on the autism spectrum - she's probably given so-called "signals" without realizing it and wondered why men felt entitled to feel her up...

Perhaps if the freaking SLUT SHAMING of women ended then this won't be nearly as much of a problem... "You're not a slut if he's putting all the moves on you, amirite?"

I would rather NEVER BE TOUCHED than play Russian roulette with someone's boundaries.

I don't understand how you would conpare touching someone to playing Russian roulette. If you touch someone (in any way, be it a handshake, a hug, or something more sensual) the worst case scenario is the person says "don't touch me" and then you stop.

Do you ask someone before shaking their hand? I guess you could but it would be weird.

If you lean in for a kiss and the person doesn't want to be kissed they will make it clear by moving away from you. If they lean in too, obviously you're both into it.

If you don't get over your fears, you're going to end up never getting anywhere with girls because they will not believe you're interested.

Also, the fact that you think it's creepy will likely be picked up on by the girl so you definitely need to get over this because people touching each other is a natural thing.

Yes, and people making the (mistaken) assumption that everyone is alright with the same level of touching is quite "natural" as well--but it's still wrong. We as a society need to get better at respecting other people's personal boundaries, and getting consent before touching someone is simply a way to respect them and their boundaries. I am rather disappointed to see the founder of this site propounding to people who are notoriously bad at reading body language to just "go for it" and try to touch people without consent whenever they feel like because that's "natural". BAD IDEA. OP I think you are spot on and I totally understand your discomfort with being expected to initiate physical contact without explicit consent to do so--asking is considerate and kind and never wrong, and anyone who makes you feel otherwise is someone who simply doesn't understand that not everyone can send and read body language effectively and everyone is different in regards to how much physical contact they like from others.

You should re-read my post. I made it extremely clear that you should respect peoples boundaries. If someone clearly tells you not to touch them, don't touch them. It's that simple.

The OP clearly has an unfounded fear that is preventing him from connecting with women who actively want to be touched. Fueling this irrational fear does nothing to help him.

And how would you know something bothers someone unless they tell you it bothers them? Assuming someone doesn't want to be talked to (because some people don't want to be talked to and you have to be sensitive about that) would result in no one in the world talking to anyone else.

There's nothing wrong with putting yourself out there, getting rejected, and moving on.

Genau!! !

Mr Comp_Geek_573, you need to find a happy medium between respecting boundaries but also showing some degree of confidence. I was actually told point blank by a previous gf when I openly discussed guys asking permission to kiss women and she said: "It's lame, it's tack and it spoils the mood. If you have to ask the answer is no". You've been taught to err on the side of caution but you're taking it way too far and it clearly is a turn-off.

The way to get what you want from people is to pay less attention to what they say and more attention to what they respond to. But if you do attempt to kiss, grope, or initiate sex and she tells you clearly to stop then you definitely need to listen. This "yes means yes" crap really takes the fun out of dating, relationships and sex. People need to take the initiative to set boundaries and speak up when they feel uncomfortable. You cannot expect the other person to read you or always take the hint.

Honestly, I think that if someone says, "You killed the mood by asking," they must not have been too into you to begin with. Personally, I have never been in a situation with a guy where that was a problem, but I can recall a few situations when I was younger where a guy I was with either totally misread me or intentionally pushed to try to get what he wanted and it was definitely a problem.

Testing someone's boundaries until she explicitly tells you to stop is never a smart idea, so you either need to be really adept at reading other people's expressions, moods, thoughts, etc. or play it safe and ask. I think sometimes people on this site give 'conventional' or 'mainstream' advice for what they think *most* guys should do, but if someone with Asperger's who struggles with reading other people follows that same advice, they could wind up with a competely different result.

I think it's good for someone to know their own abilities and interpersonal skills and do what best works for them, not just go with what they think most people should do in a particular situation. There's too much at stake when it comes to something like this and I hate to think of someone getting themselves into trouble, legal or otherwise, when it could have easily been avoided.

It's not irrational, a segment of the social justice movement has gone to great lengths to instill this fear, as can be seen by some of the responses in this thread, and elsewhere on the site as well.

That's why you ask first--so they have the chance to tell you if it bothers them and you don't have to assume anything and potentially be wrong and touch someone who doesn't want it. It's basic courtesy, and empathy.

100% agree with this. And would prefer that the guy asked, if he was unsure.

The first time I invited my current BF over to my place for dinner + overnight... he wasn't sure if I meant overnight. So he asked if he should bring pajama stuff and I said yes. Nothing wrong with asking.



I also think trying to go a bit further if it seems like she/he's into it gently is also okay -- like if you've been kissing on the sofa for a bit, reaching to unbutton her shirt -- provided that you back off if she says no/not now/not yet/doesn't seem actively into it. And, if you're unsure, ask rather than pushing your luck -- as the latter can be sexual assault.

I've had that said to me--in almost exactly the content of the quote.

I was lucky, though. It didn't totally the mood.

It's difficult for people with difficulty reading signals to discern when one desires to be touched without specifically asking.

But being romantic involves, in a large sense, not having to talk about it--just doing it!

I think the best solution would be to talk about it BEFORE getting romantic. Talk about it like you would talk about it to a friend. Talk in general terms like asking: Has anybody ever touched you without you wanting to be touched? If she answers in the affirmative, I would definitely ask first.

It is exactly the "mainstream" advice that I like less and less every day.

After all, I am looking for someone outside the "mainstream." I may try autistic dating sites. I am looking for someone who is also sick and tired of the "social survival mammoth" ruling over everyone's lives. Here's a great blog post about the human fear of social disapproval, personified as a mammoth who still thinks it's 50,000 BC:

http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/06/taming-ma ... -life.html

One major "mammoth rule" that I believe causes asking to "kill the mood" is the fear of slut-shaming. In 2015, incredibly, it is STILL taboo, particularly in conservative parts of the USA, for women to have any sort of real sexual agency. Incredibly, the very men who can't seem to help it around them SLUT-SHAME THE VERY WOMEN THEY WANT SOME FROM, just because they are being sexual without those men. And nobody ever calls out men for being slut-shamey. This while men are "players" and to be commended the more they "score"...

Just invert the genders in any "mainstream" dating situation and most of the time, it will be interpreted WAY differently. I think that's TOTAL BS AND MUST END. It is why I need feminism - it not only explains "social rules" but how ****ed-up they are!

www.everydayfeminism.com has many excellent feminist social perspectives (and some articles about autism that make sense!)

Talk about boundaries before you get romantic. Not during the time you are romantic.

If you want to romance a neurodiverse person, you have to consider boundary issues and issues of a sensory nature.

It seems like there's kind of a willful ignorance here.

Women be different than men.

Nope, women be unique people just like men. They come in all shapes, sizes, and persuasions, just like men. Enough with the gender essentialism, it's boring as well as unscientific.

Well, at least for the kissing, if you search for female opinions on internet, you'll find out that the majority of women prefer a spontaneous kiss; they expect men to read their body language....even for the first kiss you do with them!!

Here a survey I found about it:

http://howdoidate.com/studies/do-you-pr ... ss-stolen/


This is one survey, true, but if you seek threads on forums asking the same question and you look at the female responses, you'll consistently find that the majority of women (more than 60%) find it silly for a guy to ask before kissing and some even find it a major turn off.

Look at this thread on POF for example: https://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingP ... 23133.aspx MOST women there don't want to be asked first.

There's no doubt about it, OP, your girlfriend represents the majority.

Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 03 Nov 2015, 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

From the article above.

18% of women and 15% of men said yes, that they would want someone to Ask before a first kiss.

64% of women and 65% of men said No. Many thought being asked would ruin the mood,or that Asking was undesirable/undesired.

18% of women and 20% of men gave an answer indicating that they might want to be Asked, or that whether or not they wanted to be asked would depend on various things. "