question about how the natural/sexual theory applies to ASD

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according to the natural selection theory the people who have undesirable traits aren't supposed to pass on their genetics to future generations. this mean that in the "fight" for a mate, the people who are considered desirable (attractive,strong,Rich, confident,no disability/diagnosis etc) by the opposite gender will naturally win. so does that mean that because I have ASD/social anxiety (and the fact that im unattractive ), It will be almost impossible for me to find a girlfriend and be able to keep a relationship. (because ASD and unnatractiveness are considered undesireble by women). why do I have to be an undesireable?

The only thing you can do is do your best in that fight. If you lose anyway and fail to pass on your genes, they'll be weeded out and thus shown not to be fit enough in your environment; if you win, they'll be proven to be fit enough. If you give up, you'll have already failed. Any genes that make you more likely to give up are therefore already being weeded out.

If you get a girl preggo, you win. Because now you've passed on your genetics for future generations.

That's why you never pull out.


Rule #427 in the Rules of Dating Guidebook, Always Pull Out.

If this were true, AS would have been weeded out of the population millennia ago. Obviously AS people have found a way to contribute to society (and to genetic propagation) or there wouldn't be so many people in the human population either on the spectrum themselves or carrying genetic predispositions for it. This "If I can't pass on my AS genes I'm worthless!" panic is overdone and unnecessary.

Imo autistic genes have existed for a very long time so I doubt we're unfit, because, well, here we are.

Pretty much this.


Most people seem to draw the brutality of evolution by natural selection a lot further than it really necessitates. True, if we were a solitary or possibly pair-bonding species of primate fending for ourselves on the savannah, the strongest and hardiest and most fertile would have been much more capable of passing their genes along owing to those traits alone. In a miniscule group such as that, there really is only room for survival and nothing else, and any shoes in that machinery may result in your immediate removal from the gene pool via lion digestive tract. The monkey wrench in that line of thinking is that, for all our autistic cursing of that fact, we are a very, very social species.
In a neolithic human tribe of, say, five families of five individuals, there is room for traits other than feeding, fighting and fu...reproduction. An autistic person may serve as a tool maker or a fire keeper or a shaman or any number of tasks that don't involve stabbing mammoths with sticks. In such cases it is not beyond reasonable to imagine that, in an age rather long predating salaries, that they'd be provided with food, shelter and a wife or two.

Sorry for the long tangent, I just have a thing for evolution.


All I can say is this, and take it for the probably worthless drivel that it is; play to your strengths, and if you feel you don't have strengths, turn your weaknessses into strengths. Asking "what do women want" is useless, because any answer is going to be so vague and generalizing that it means nothing. And plenty of women like a man who's a "project", and/or who plays to their nurturing instinct. I'm told smart/nerdy is the new sexy (In which case I'm either really dumb or really missing out) and that chest-pounding macho BS (which will always appeal to some) is not the be-all-end-all of attracting a partner.

Hope any of that helped.



QFT

Read up a bit on what's been learned about many Alpha-led hierarchies in the last decade. The zetas 'get as much' as the Alphas & without the constant, life-shortening fight/stress...they basically simply choose to not play the game, not be noticed and end up being far more likeable.

Your own logic of natural selection can be used as a counter-argument.

If ASD was an 'undesirable' trait, it would have been bred out of the gene pool many, many years ago, along with many other traits.

Instead, it still exists in our genetics (with many theories proposing it is in fact at least partly genetic). It may only be a minority, but it's still there, so people still appreciate it.

Whoops! Sorry wilburforce, didn't realize I just paraphrased your argument. I onl checked the oP's post.

ASD has a lot of traits that are desirable, by natural selection. (i'll write from a cavemen PoV, since that is what our natural instincts still are)
- hypersensitivity means that we make great sentries: we realise everything that's going on
- anxiety puts us on a hair-trigger for danger; combined with hypersensitivity, we are "on guard" even while relaxing
- special interests make us specialists in one task, which might be very useful (tool/trap making, for example, or tracking animals)


In the modern world, where survival is basically a given, other traits become more desirable, but that is 'social selection', not 'natural selection'. social selection can be bypassed by looking at other weirdos... we are not hopeless

izzme is right.

There is even a fair bit of discussion on how we may have faired in ancient times.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 122849.htm

One such theory is whle others spent their times socializing, ancient aspies spent theirs on their 'special interest'.

Because it was about survival in those times, our special interest may have been food collection, huntin,g shelter building., etc. all ensuring our survival.

Yeah low-functioning autism would have been dififcult to handle in those times but I can see Asperger's being adventageous in sme ways.

josh, you consider yourself undesirable. That doesn't mean that every one of the over 3,000,000,000 human females on Earth will find you undesirable. They are the ones doing the choosing, not you. If Aspie traits are undesirable, why do they persist? Somebody must find Aspie traits attractive. Don't psych yourself out.

No. Try to find a girl who will like you for you. Having social anxiety or Asperger's does not make someone less desirable.

I adhere to the train of thought that Autism is the brainchild behind Ancient Civilization.

Unless of course, you know of any other mental condition that would, say allow a person to say no to a life of nothing but eating and rutting, long enough (generations) to wear a dead animals bloody flesh and fur, and bang two rocks together long enough to find a use for the pretty sparks.

Prior to the point in history where society stopped trying to discourage free thinking. It is my belief that people with Autism where the ones to create and try new things, but it was neurotypicals that took it, ran with it, and improved upon it.