How to break a pattern of bad dating experience [Long Post]
Background: I'm a 29-year-old (male) software programmer, that recently at the suggestion of my (female) roommate started seeing a psychologist over suspected AS traits. The main things that prompted my roommate to suggest this included several botched dates (we met through a speed dating event, and after awhile did the "let's just be roommates" talk), stiff movement, having to explicitly learn certain things (how to hold a fork without it wobbling), and frustration at me not "getting" things that should be intuitive ("there isn't supposed to be a manual for this!").
I took the three tests, of which the cambridge is the only one I remember off the top of my head; two of the tests fell short of "borderline", the third/long test was "overwhelmingly autistic".
It's the weirdest thing. I never really had sensory issues, or singular obsessive interests or a horrid fear of sudden changes. Mostly, I'm socially super-awkward, dorky, and horrible at learn-by-observation (ex: I understand vector cross-products after reading the actual formula, but never understood the "right-hand-rule"). I'm fashion-challenged a bit, and it took a fair bit of training to not be a complete slob (nowadays, I at least dress normalish/can be kind of cute, dunno).
Online Dating:
I've tried online dating sites for awhile. I started on OKCupid...back in 2009, when I was still in college? I didn't really start using it until 2012, when I first got a full-time job working as a software programmer/consultant. I went on a lot of first dates, with four seconds dates, one third date. Of these times, I've never received any honest reasons for "I'm not interested." Usually, it had been some "No Chemistry", "I'm not sure what I'm looking for", or (my personal favorite, from a DB admin) "You remind me too much of my coworkers, and while I love them to death I think I'm looking for something different...like not a computer programmer." (despite me writing that on my profile).
I stopped after meeting my roommate, but then after things didn't work out, I got back online. I also got on Tinder, Plentyoffish, Hinge, Coffee Meets Bagel...these are the free ones. If there's some smaller consolation to this, it's just been that the reasons for rejection have been more varied.
-One rejection was due to "lack of shared values." (she turned out to be super-Christian, I'm more a flexible agnostic).
-One rejection was due to "WE HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON!"
-One rejection was due to me asking her out to go barhopping with friends ("I TOLD YOU I DON'T DRINK! NEVER CONTACT ME AGAIN!" Note, she only mentioned "no drinking" in passing).
-One rejections was due to the fact I have an opposite-gender roommate.
-One rejection for "No Chemistry."
-Four ghosts. One of them ended our meeting (at a wine bar) with the coldest interview-like response "You'll be hearing back from me soon."
-Three of them were more indicative than others. I came on too strong to one, I was bad with personal spacing with the second (this is something I've noticed, a bad modulation, I either am too up-close or too distant, either coming on too strongly or not. The last one was at least more honest-ish; she said that she felt that I gave her too long a hug when we first met and she felt uncomfortably awkward after the fact, and that she meant to say that because I probably never got told anything like that before and probably didn't know what I was doing.
The worst one however, was one I met up with several times throughout. We did dinner and drinks twice while getting to know each other, had her over for date three, we get to drinks, making out, no clothes...then she says she's not quite ready/needs time. I do this. We hang out more, she mentions not being over her ex (red flag) and needs time. I give her time. We go clubbing...and she proceeds to slut it up with the entire club, grind, make out, everything. We break up, she tries deflecting it on me like "I don't want to have to have to teach you everything, you're 29 and there are some things that women are going to expect you to know about dating" or something cruel like that, to which I said "sure *eyeroll*, have a nice life." And she may have had access to her ex's facebook account, because I got this overdramatic "if you come anywhere near her, I will know, and I will know where you live" message.
Anyway,
-Tried a speed dating event. 11 women, I said "yes" to 7. The 4 I didn't say yes to:
--Two way older (late 30s or so), one wanted a guy that "Loved the lord as much as I do."
--One of them just up and left in the middle of the conversation to take a phone call.
--One of them was way too into football for her own good. She mentions going to UNC-Wilmington, she asks where I went, to which I said "NC State."
She said "I hate that school." I went..."You're...joking, are you?"
Her response was "No, I'm serious! I'm a Duke fan, and Chapel Hill are their main rivals but State are just a bunch of posers!"
"I...went because they had the overall best and most affordable science and engineering programs in-state."
"I DON'T CARE ABOUT THAT!"
"Look. I don't watch football. I've never watched a Superbowl. I didn't know who Tom Brady was until last year. I'm like...Leonard from Big Bang. I need to consult Wikipedia to understand how it works, or who plays what."
"You don't watch sports?! !?"
"Look, I don't think we have much in common, but maybe we could be friends, and laugh at this later."
"We still have 3 minutes left, I want my time back!"
And so I just sat there amused, while she was sulking into her cellphone.
--The 7 I said yes to, none of them were resounding yes's, as much as "sure, it may be cool to get drinks" rather than anything else. None of them said yes.
-Have tried bar-hopping. I don't really know how to bar. Also, being that guy that goes to bars alone, I might as well put on a giant sign that says "creeper." I think the only times I've been comfortable at a bar, are when I went with a friend once, and another time when I went to a "gay" bar (I'm using the word loosely) doing kink night. I guess it's easier to not feel like the "weird one" when other people are playing with rope suspension and wax.
-I honestly don't know how to ask out women in real life either.
-Too many meetups are bar-centric, and I end up being the "ignored" guy, unable to enter a social circle. I went to an alumni dinner, and while I could have good two-way conversations and learn a lot from the older alumni about assorted tech initiatives, programs, professional groups, etc, the younger ones (regardless of gender) usually found some excuse to go "I'm going to...(grab food/use a restroom/talk to other people/get away from you)".
-Work is not an option. I'm the only person in my team that is not married, and not H1B from India (aka, getting "set up" isn't likely to happen).
-Have tried the local AS meetup. I'm...not *THAT* bad? I hate sounding elitist about it, but it was just horrid.
The question is, what next?
-I recently transferred to a newer psychologist, in-network. I'm testing to see if this gets me anywhere. I'm still skeptical, mostly because I have this innate distrust of any service that exists to put itself out of customers.
-I'm skeptical about paid dating sites, dating coaches/consultants, and even moreso about PUA material, etc.
-One thing that's helped me keep some personal self-worth was taking up a new hobby. About a month ago, I googled "blacksmithing", because I wanted to do something creative where I could create tangible objects (as opposed to writing more user interfaces/other abstract things), so I joined ABANA. I've done some small things here and there, including learning how to make a fireplace poker, my first knife, some copper rings (I meant to make a bracelet but that didn't pan out), and a spear. In what may be the weirdest case yet, when I went barhopping with my friend, he went to the restroom, the bartender and I started chatting, and I pointed out some rings and how I made them. She seemed super-interested and I offered one, we started just chatting about DIY, random stuff, etc, then she said "Let me give you my number." I texted her the next day, and never heard back. I was...apparently too direct in setting up a date, going "so Monday at 7" rather than doing any small-talk/setting up a date in the first place.
-Have applied for a lot of "volunteer" roles. Those take forever to hear back from. One of them is to help the Catholic church integrate refugees into society. I've contemplated re-entering the faith (baptized Catholic, never did confirmation), despite lacking any personal spirituality or belief, simply for the social opportunity/chances to do good. Emotional and romantic isolation have taken their toll a lot.
What easy-to-practice advice would one recommend for a nerdish, somewhat off programmer that never quite understood the subtleties of a lot of social norms, especially on how to *meet* women in the first place, much less ask them out?
Stop going after NTs and learn how to detect NDs.
BTW, I'm a programmer too (even have a professional operating system project behind me), and I started with dancing, which is a great way to meet women if you have trouble with dating and "asking out". Asking for a dance is a whole lot easier than asking for a date.
Seriously, you need to focus on compatible girls and at the same time stop trying to fit in so much. But the first step is to learn to identify NDs. Without that, you will get nowhere.
Ouch. You're saying...no NTs whatsoever.
And yeah, I've done some dance things before. I know of the contra and swing dance groups, and try to attend when I can.
I recently joined Toastmasters for social stuff. Some online resources I've read recommended improv acting groups or so, but haven't seen any with openings around me.
aspie here, married to an introverted NT. i don't think you need to rule out all NT's. you would need someone understanding, who could appreciate your intelligence and overlook, or even educate you, about social gaffes. i often run social things past my husband before i say them.
i learned lots from the school of hard knocks. the woman who told you about hugging too long is the type of person you should look for.
Realistically, the main patterns I've noticed are:
-Most groups I associate with, tend to be overwhelmingly male (blacksmithing), or the few women are already married (toastmasters, junior chamber of commerce)/way older (gem and mineral club). The exception, is contra/swing dance. There are some women at gym, but that's an exception.
-I'm not photogenic. I don't really know how to smile on cue. I also have a dad bod. This rules out Tinder; despite being on it for about 2 years, and overwhelming rightswipes, I've yet...to actually meet someone in person. This is a hangup, just because it takes a certain disassociation to tell myself "No, these 5000+ women are not personally rejecting me." OKCupid/POF tend to work "better" (if 50+ something first date dead-ends are "better") simply because I get the chance to write messages in the first place.
-I'm apparently a bad judge of character/intentions. Profiles that are obviously scams are not a problem; it's when I misread a person's emotions/mindset that it gets awful. I remember getting drinks with one woman, whom said it was the best date she had been on in awhile, at least until the check came and she let me pay. Then she went cold, and said I was inappropriate. I met another woman at a social, and after some chatting, she said "I just got out of a relationship", before giving me her business card/phone number. I contact her about getting drinks, she says "I told you I just got out of a relationship, I don't get why that's so confusing."
The majority of dating meetups here are geared towards 40s-50s that are fresh out of divorce, and not awkward 20-somethings that didn't find a significant other in college.
Thoughts:
Tennis or something else like that? Would definitely be less "obviously here to meet women" than something like yoga.
I dunno what else really. The closest thing to a pickup guide I've read in forever was The Well Cultured Anonymous, and that's almost 10 years old now (and written by /b/). So...yeah.
