RetroGamer's Worst Date Ever!

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Today I went on my first date ever. The girl was this cute skinny Chinese girl, 25 years old, whom I'd been seeing for a number of weeks. This was date number 5. She's reserved, not outgoing but she has a very mellow quality, except today.

I thought I might of offended her due to culture clash on date number 4 when I suggested she disobey her parents. I said that 25 year olds don't need to listen to their parents. I wasn't quite sure how offended she was because, due to her mellow nature, she never seems to show emotional reaction to anything. I think in her view, she's sparing my feelings by not being outwardly offended but sparing my feelings is no favour when it means I have no feedback and can only guess when I've done something wrong.

I'd patched things up with her. At first I thought we could go and see the new Star Trek movie. She said that would be fine but she says that about all my suggestions because she always wants to spare my feelings. She literally never complains about anything or lets on when something upsets her. As I said, this means I have zero feedback to go on. It's like flying blind. She always has a either a poker face or Mona Lisa smile and her voice is always very quite, breathy and monotone. It occurred to me that not everyone likes Star Trek as much as I do. Star Trek isn't very classy. I decided that I wanted to take her to something a little fancier than Star Trek. So I booked us tickets to the opera.

I wasn't in the best condition today. I rarely get insomnia but I got it last night. I slept like a log from 11:30PM to 12:30AM and then could not get back to sleep for the rest of the night. I was really on edge from Friday when I tried to rush through everything very quickly at work. I managed to reach my goals for the day but I spent the whole day in a sort of bullettime frenzy. After that, I couldn't calm down. Even after I got home and I could just veg out, I spent the next 30 hours on a ceaseless adrenaline charge. It's still going. I feel psychically energetic and mentally exhausted so I can't get anything useful done at the moment.

It turned out I wasn't the only one who was sleep deprived. She looked very tired and stressed. It turned out, due to staff cutbacks at work, instead of her usual shift of 4:00PM to 12:00AM, she had to do 8:00PM to 6:00AM. Unlike my job, in her job, overtime isn't optional. Also her factory job is more psychically demanding than my office job.

We were booked to see the Matinee performance of The Pirates of Penzance at 2:00PM. I decided if I picked her up at noon we'd be able to have a leasurly lunch and make it well before the show started. After I'd already started driving to her house, she called and said she needed more time to get ready. She said to come at 12:30PM. I went for a 30 minute walk. I knocked on her door and she texted me that she still wasn't ready. I waited in the car for an additional 15 minutes. I didn't really like waiting around there because she lives in a poor neighbourhood.

We set off. She seemed to be a lot more on-edge than usual. She said she'd only been able to get about 3 hours of sleep. She looked exhausted. I thought we could skip the restaurant and just get a takeaway lunch. I suggested McDonald's. She doesn't like McDonald's. I suggested Subway. We drove past a Subway because I thought it would make sense to go to the Subway near the theatre instead of the first one we saw.

Even though she has a bachelor of English literature, her English is very poor so I often can't understand her meaning. I thought she didn't sound very keen on lunch. I suggested we skip the takeaway lunch and go to a nice restaurant for dinner after the show. She agreed. I thought she was fine with it. The trouble is, she always agrees with my ideas even when she's not fine with it. I thought it would be ok since she doesn't eat much anyway. She's always saying she wants to lose weight even though she's already thin.

We drove past a McDonald's and she said we should go there, even though she doesn't like McDonald's. It turned out she was starving. She hadn't eaten since yesterday. After getting off at 6:00AM and catching the bus home, she went to sleep immediately without time for breakfast, only to be woken up a few hours later by my text. I hadn't eaten anything since lunch time yesterday because I'm trying to lose weight with the no food diet. I was a little hungry but I'm used to it so I wasn't concerned.

It turned out there was a Subway across the road from McDonald's. We went in there. She seemed quite confused by the process of ordering. At first she didn't order anything. I thought maybe she wanted to split my footlong but then she seemed to change her mind. I asked her what she wanted and she said she wanted whatever I'm having. Just like in the Portuguese restaurant. I think the reason she often orders what I'm having is because she's unfamiliar with western food. I thought about taking her to a Chinese restaurant like the ones she often goes to with her friends but I decided it would be stereotyping to take a Chinese girl to a Chinese restaurant. She's convinced that aussies dislike Chinese food and can't handle spicy food. She is of course, wrong on both counts.

I ordered an identical sandwich in six inch. She expressed dismay when she saw her sandwich was only half the size of mine. She said she thought it would be exactly the same as mine. Why would a 100 lb waif girl want to eat all that food? When we were at the Italian restaurant on our second date she couldn't even get through half of her salmon penne. Maybe she was extra hungry because she hadn't eaten since yesterday and she'd been through a 10 hour shift at the factory since then. I consoled her since it was too late to change the order.

We chatted as we drove to the theatre. She's supposed to return to China next year. I was scheming to get her to stay so she can be my girlfriend. She had come here for a year to improve her English skills. This plan had largely failed because she lives with Chinese housemates, has Chinese friends here who she eats out with in Chinatown and works in a small Chinese staffed factory. I'm the only one here she gets to speak English with. The rest speak Mandarin. She had not been immersed in the English language.

I suggested that since her English hadn't picked up she should stay on for another year. She agreed with this idea but said since her work visa would expire after a year she'd have to get a student visa. I said she could enrol in Adelaide University and study anything she wants, maybe IT. She said she couldn't go into IT because "I'm not smart like you". She said that her real passion was teaching but her grades on the entrance exam weren't high enough to allow her to do a bachelor of education when she was in China. Maybe she could do one here.

She said she didn't think she could enrol in Adelaide university because it would be too expensive. She said since she doesn't have permanent residence her fees would be unsubsidised. I decided to err on the side of caution and not suggest she get permanent residence by marring me.

I came up with a plan for her to pay her fees. Since she usually does shifts at the factory at night time, she could work 8 to 10 hours overnight and attend university classes by day. Between class and reading/assignments her total study load shouldn't be much more than 8 hours per day. This would enable her to pay her tuition fees. I thought that since she'd already been through the Chinese education system, she'd be used to working 18 hour days. As it turned out she didn't like this suggestion.

I told her I didn't actually know what the university fees were because I'd never been there. She was very surprised by this. She said she thought that to get into IT I must have been to university. She sounded disappointing. I asked her if she thought this was bad and she said it was fine. She always says it's fine, no matter what she's actually thinking.

We were really running late now. Only a few minutes to go. I was hyped up on adrenaline and no sleep so I was driving even more recklessly than I normally do. She seemed to be quite frightened of my swerving and near misses.

There's an old stereotype that says men are better at navigating than women. Stereotypes are not always true. I'm terrible at navigating. We were quite close to the theatre but I wasn't quite sure where it was. It turned out I'd never been to the South Australian Light Opera Society because I'd never had anyone interested in going before. My friends don't like opera as much as I do.

I thought I was within a few hundred metres and I was driving around, narrowing in on the target. She seemed to be particularly distressed by the idea that I didn't know where I was going. She asked to be let out so she could look it up on my phone. Her phone was out of credit. As it turned out she had no idea how to use my phone since while she's used to iPhone 6 my phone is an old BlackBerry that I refuse to give up because they don't make 'em like they used to.

After she gave up on using my retro smartphone she asked how to get to the city. She wanted to go to the phone shop and buy phone credit. I thought this was a good idea since by now it was probably too late to make the show and I hadn't yet paid for our tickets. I was a little bit disappointing since we got so close, we'd just drive past a buidling that may have been the theatre but of course I was happy to drive her to the city so she could go to the phone shop and maybe afterwards we could go to the cinema to see the new Star Trek movie.

She asked how to get to the city. I told her we simply drive along Goodwood Rd. She asked how she could get to the city without driving. I pointed to a bus stop on the other side of the road and told her the bus that stops there will take her into the city. She caught the bus. Alone. I drove home by myself. After I got home I realised I could have made my Kung Fu group if I'd thought of it I'd already planned to skip it to see the show but since the group starts at 2:30PM and it's not too far from the alleged location of the theatre I probably could've made it. So much for exercise.

By now I thought a relationship was probably off the table but the last time I'd offended her she said we'd still always be friends. I think maybe friends was what she had in mind all along. Perhaps she wasn't really looking for a relationship in Australia. I was happy to just remain friends. Then I found out she'd blocked me on Facebook. This is the final insult! She ghosted me! Now we can't even be friends. She hadn't even told me what I'd done wrong!

I've been so tired lately. I don't even know if I want to continue dating. Girls seem so fickle. They often seem like they like me than suddenly change their mind. This is very confusing for me. A lot of the time they don't even tell me what I'd done wrong. I hate it when they ghost me.

Yet if I stop dating that seems like giving up. Like something a lazy man would do. I don't want to be a quitter. But I'm so so tired. If I cease dating I'll be able to pay off my credit cards. I like being alone but I don't. Here in my apartment, above the noise of the streets, I feel very serine and peaceful as I drink my coffee for dinner and idly browse the web. I could happily be alone for the rest of my days but I'd always wonder, is there something more to life? Is there more than just work and kung fu and sitting at home on the couch?

I just want a relaxing life. Can't I find a serine girl who doesn't create drama? One who speaks her mind rather then staying silent to "spare my feelings" then overreacts when I continue doing the wrong thing? I just want to find a nice girl I can take to the opera and the symphony. Why is that so hard?

Hey Buddy,

Sorry about that. She doesn't seem like the right girl for you. That's the nature of the Chinese culture, as you know. They want to "save face." They also want YOU to "save face," too. That's why she doesn't criticize you.

Next time, on a date, don't suggest Subway or McDonald's as a place to eat. Fast food just doesn't cut it. Unless the girl suggests it. Most girls don't like those places on dates; they would rather go to at least a diner. Some girls even find it an insult for a man to even suggest going to a fast food place with them on a date.

They also don't like it if you get lost, and don't seem to know where you're going. It, especially, scares those who come from a conservative culture where the man is the main guide to things. She got a little neurotic about "getting lost." She might not have liked it that you had a "retro" smartphone.

I get the feeling (I could be wrong!) that the fact that you seemed to lack a sense of direction might be behind her subsequent decisions.

I'm sorry she "cut you off." But there are other girls. I don't find that you "failed." Just learn from this.

You're a smart guy. You will find success.

Yeah.

You made a lot of 'mistakes', but here's the thing:

1. This was date 5, which is the point where if she was interested in a relationship back, she may have been at least slightly less judgmental over the things that happened.

However, even at date 5, some women will still look out for 'red flags'.

2. You said it yourself she's a 'mellow' and 'chill' woman. If you mean relaxed and laidback, then she also wouldn't have taken some of these issues too seriously.

For example, I'd think a laidback woman would be more okay with the idea of getting fast food, then some stuck-up rich woman who only expects perfection from you. Especially on date 5, because I'd personally assume by then a woman would become more comfortable with you and you wouldn't have to put as much effort into impressing her, though this is just a guess.

What mistakes do I think you made?

Well, here's what I think. Don't take any of this personal, my goal is for this advice to be constructive and not tear you down at all. I wish you luck next time around.

1. Indecisiveness: Some women like a man who can take charge and lead her when it comes to dates. This doesn't mean she should be forced to watch a movie or do something she doesn't like, but constantly changing your mind and being hesitant in what you do may turn some women off, especially Chinese women from more traditional households.

If I were you, I would have debated the whole Star Trek vs. Opera and Subway vs. Mcdonald's thing purely in your head, and once you came to a conclusion assertively suggested you do it together.

It is better to use assertive language.

"So...I hear the new Star Trek movie is on. Do...do you want to go see it? Is that alright by you? But...you know, we don't have to if you don't want to, of course."

This sort of language sounds hesitant and indecisive. It is a desperate attempt to seek her approval. If you want to take charge, you don't try to seek her approval and ask permission for every little thing - you make decisions for the pair of you yourself, but take HER needs into account. It is also in passive voice, rather than active voice (google the difference).

A better alternative would be:

"I think we should go see the opera. I enjoy it and would like to show you what it's like. Yeah?"

"I love Subway, and would like to get you something there."

"You've never been? We should go then, I feel very keen to introduce you to it."

2. Ordering issues: Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it sounds like she said she wanted exactly what you did, but you only ordered the version of the sandwich that is half as long. That's a no-no.

When it comes to ordering a meal, be the one who makes a suggestion for her if she's clearly never been.

Again, assertive demeanor.

"I think you should try the X. It comes with a kind of sandwich with X, X and X on it and a drink of your choice."

3. Driving: It is not a good idea to drive recklessly with a woman in the car, even if in a rush. It will make her feel unsafe and endangered.

Drive as careful but efficiently as you can.

Even if you risk running late, tell her this.

"I'll do my best to get us there on time, but we could be a few minutes late. But don't worry about it. We'll make it."

4. Navigation: This can also make some women stress-out or hysterical. It is best to plan your route before any date.

Even if you decide in the middle of the date you're going to go somewhere you've never been, immediately open up your phone and plan your route with GPS or Google Maps.

"I think we should go to the opera. I'm not quite sure how to get there yet, but I'll just look on my phone right now and plan the route. Just hold tight for a minute, please."

"Ok, I've found the way. We'll be there soon."

5. Education/Career: I'm sure you're aware of this. She may have been disappointed you didn't get your job by getting a degree at Uni.

4 years of Uni shows a lot more dedication than say, some 6 month TAFE course or whatever you did.

Also, this definitely wasn't a failure at all. You went on 5 dates straight and have thus gained more experienced.

5 dates would be my personal record, as I've only been on 4 max with the same girl.

Normally I wouldn't I told her it was because we were running late and she apologised for delaying us to the point were we didn't have time to go to a restaurant.That would explain a lot. Girls seem to hate it when I get lost. I think you're right about her being from a conservative culture. She'd never suggest a venue or a restaurant. The unspoken agreement was that was my job. She even prefered me to order for her.The main security feature is that no one else can figure out how to use it. My ex hated it.

I know a few guys who use old phones. Just guys. Not any girls. I think one of the fundamental differences between men and women is that men are far more sentimental. Men and women are both emotional creatures but female emotion tends to be focused on the present situation. Women hardly ever express a desire to change things in the past. They adapt to change more readily but this comes at the expense of their foresight. Their adaptation to change may be very rapid but it's more reactionary than anticipationary.

A man's strength and weakness is that he lives always in the past, present and future. This can be a heavy burden. A woman's strength and weakness is that she lives in the moment without sentiment.Do you just mean my lack of direction in driving or lack of direction for my life in general?

I get the feeling that women want to me to not only be in full control of my life but also be able to lead them and to guide them. This conflicts with my view of the modern liberated woman who doesn't need a man to lead her by the hand.

Trying to organize my life is hard enough without trying to organize someone else's. It won't surprise you to learn that organisational skills aren't among my strong points.

Anyway, women have better organizational skills resulting from better short term memory, which allows them to hold more events/names/things in their mind at once.

That being the case why should they want a man to lead them? Or do they prefer to quietly organize things from the background? That's what my grandmother always does for my grandfather. What shocks me is that she hides her true intelligence around him. She's a genius but she doesn't let on. 53 years of constantly dumbing down her vocabulary to his level must be a massive sacrifice for her just to spare his feelings.I find it hard to learn from breakups when they don't tell me the reason.

Did I do something so appallingly bad that she can't even speak to me? Or is she just being lazy? Like this is the laziest way she could dump me. I just don't know.

I'm starting to think she wasn't really mellow at all. As Krafty suggested she could be neurotic but she covers it up to "save face".Yeah. My ex really liked KFC and my ex before her really liked Hungry Jack's. They didn't complain about fast food.I won't. If you can't critisize you can't optimize.Yes. I can understand why she wouldn't want me to be passive sook. In my attempt to not drag her into something she'd dislike, I may have come across as passive.

This is why I never ask girls where they want to go on a date. It's on egalitarian, they don't like it and it's only putting the burden of choice on them when they probably don't know either.Perhaps you're right. I just thought that since she's less than half my weight the half size sandwich would seem the same to her. She's only 46 kilos and small girls can't eat much. My decision was based partly on the experience of her being unable to finish even half of her salmon penne at the Italian restaurant. Then again maybe sleeping through breakfast made her extra hungry.Sad but true. I thought maybe she'd be concerned with my career rather than how I got it but since she has a bachelor degree from her perspective it seems doable.

And you're right, it does show a lot more dedication. Not only 4 years of uni but you have to do well in school for 2 years to even get into uni. I couldn't even clear that first hurdle for myriad reasons.

Even for me who has listened to mostly classical music for her entire life it's hard to like a full symphony since I really hate the sound of horns, trumpets, trombones and timpanies. I only like to listen to sonata parts of any symphonies (a solo instrument or a small ensemble). And as for operas, I would be willing to go only if it's Luciano Pavarotti's show who already died several years ago.

Having said that, even if he/she says they like classical music, it's still possible for them to hate symphonies, opera. I imagine there's few who enjoys them.

She may have liked you but realized that you wouldn't meet her parents' standards--such as a Uni degree. Also, while buying half a sandwich seems logical, it does bring up questions about your ability to provide for her. Same with the retro phone. She may be quite upset over her mistakes in sizing you up--at her age she may be embarrassed at discovering multiple errors on the same date!

Last edited by BTDT on 20 Aug 2016, 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

I don't think you did anything "appalling." At all.

I would, if possible, dispense with fast food as an option for eating on a date, unless the girl suggests it. Or if time is short.

I meant...that you seemed to be indecisive as to directions while you were driving. My mother gets anxious when I don't seem to know where I'm going.

I wouldn't use the "passive voice." I was say...I like X; would you like X as well?

The half-a-sandwich thing might have made you look "cheap."

I don't think you're doing too badly career-wise, actually. I don't think most women would mind the job that you do.

Yeah, what this guy says. He hits the nail right on the head!

Regardless of all the unintentional faux-pas you did, it was cruel of her to block you after 5 dates.

Yeah, it seems so that a man must always be perfect in dating, no small mistakes allowed.

Maybe she was bothered by the reckless driving?

However, it sounds like she's sort of weird and probably wouldn't have worked out anyway so it's good you didn't end up wasting too much time with her.

To me, the largest problem appears to be that you were clueless to when she didn't like your ideas. When she doesn't tell you out-right that she is upset or dislikes something, you will need to notice it through facial expressions, or other nonverbal communication. When that fails, and they don't give you verbal feedback, then it won't work in the long run.

This is something that I'm very particular about. I absolutely require some kind of feedback that I can understand, either as stims, facial expressions or verbally. The better this works, the greater chances for a successful relationship, as this is not only required in dating. It will continue to be important for as long as you are together.

Also, assertive men can be assertive because they can read these things out from women.

My lady friend is like this, she bottle up things and only much later she tells me, in privacy, that she didn't like the food/place/people - even though she passively agreed on them.

She never complained about any of my behavior, but I wonder if she keeps this inside too

This kind of personality is very difficult to deal with.

At least it demands higher compatibility than when they tell you straight out. For an ND dating another ND, this might not be a too big issue, as I would get the clues, if not instantly, at least after some experience with her. In fact, wife sometimes is like this, but I know her well enough to know when she is not sincere.

I wish I had a magical answer for you. I know how frustrating it is though. I'm an outspoken person, and I like someone to be upfront also with what they want, and how they feel, winstead of having to guess all of the time, so when they always say, "I'm fine", "It's fine", or "Okay", it get's overwhelming, as I'm trying to figure out if it really is or not, especially when the vibes sate otherwise. I'm having that same issue to some extent myself, so I understand! I'm really sorry they blocked you though, that's really a crappy thing to do! I know that some people are overly passive, but Yikes! Don't give up though, not all women are like this. Sometimes, I think some of us attract a certain type, and need to change the types we attract somehow. LOL. That's what I worked on, over the last year, and it worked so far.

Anyway, I can't see how a relationship would work with a such huge language barrier.

She was probably with you because she thought you're an Australian White with an Uni degree or whatever - and if she's conservative, she may expect you to be more assertive.

One thing is sure: that blocking action proves that she doesn't love you, nor that she has the least respect/appreciation to you.