Not genuinely nice guys!

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Do you agree with me that a lot of the nice guys that women ignore aren't genuinely nice guys?

Like women can see through them and are good judges of character?

I think that the concept of "nice" is, by itself, very ill-defined, and has to be defined first before anything can be said about this. It also may be that on average what is defined as "nice" by the two sexes is quite different.

To me, a nice guy (one I would actually judge as nice, whether or not he calls himself a "nice guy") does the following:

Relationship:
--Does things together with the girl that she enjoys, but also gives her space to pursue her own life
--Doesn't "tie her down" unless/beyond when he is committed to her
--Does his best to accommodate any disabilities/health problems/other restrictions that his girlfriend has
--Has a sense of fairness that he shows everyone, especially his girlfriend

Sexually:
--Asks clearly for consent before doing anything, for the first time at least--not just the typical ones like sex itself, but other kinds of touch as well
--Does his best to please her and learn what she likes
--Treats any unusual sexual preferences (e.g. fetishes) that she has with understanding and curiosity, not revulsion. That doesn't mean he has to be OK with doing absolutely anything, just that he doesn't take his unwillingness towards anything as a way of making her feel bad.

General:
--Gives people respect and understanding in general
--Lives ethically, i.e. not making a living from crime and/or deception

It's not that a guy isn't nice at all unless he does ALL of these things, but the more he does, the nicer he is in my opinion. By these standards, I believe that the majority of aspie "nice guys" are in fact nice. Some are maybe harder for us than others, like the "not tying her down" part can be hard when we are so used to not having anyone, but in general we fit these conditions.

If you look at the above list, someone can live at home with parents playing video games all day and be completely nice, or conversely be very independent and outgoing and not be nice at all. Similarly, a guy can be nice even in a friends-with-benefits relationship by these standards. If you add "loyally committed" and "providing material support" to the requirements, then things obviously change.

By the way, my list of attributes of a "nice girl" are quite similar to the above. I would add one thing, which is perhaps the least likely for a girl to actually fullfill, and that is something like "Recognizes that her body's greater value on the sexual market is on some level unfair, because it relates to the parts she was born with and not anything she has done, and does her best to mitigate this power imbalance". And I would have put the reverse for guys, i.e. "Recognizes that his greater value in the job market is on some level unfair, and tries to mitigate that imbalance", but firstly this is getting better as society changes, and also because I feel that's kind of covered by the "sense of fairness" thing--a guy who uses his greater earning power at a similar job as a means of asking a woman to be obedient is not very fair in my opinion.

Agreed.



That's just greek to me.



Young girls greater sexual value is never likely to change. It's inherit in human nature, primarily because men of all ages find young women most attractive. The lower sexual value of older women is not likely to ever change either. It's essentially a supply-demand situation.

Some who claim to be nice are not genuinely nice. Some might claim that women only date jerks and that they can't get a girlfriend because they are nice, but that's usually jealousy and they consider everyone a jerk who is more successful, more confident or more attractive than them. Some are actually quite sexist and consider themselves nice because they listen to girls and pretend to take them serious and care even though they actually are bored by what she says and think all women are irrational and stupid. Others think they are nice, but are always negative and over-sensitive and resort to emotional blackmail - e.g. threatening suicide or claiming she'd prefer if he killed himself whenever she says something he doesn't like or words a sentence the wrong way.

But it's perfectly possible that a guy is really nice and can't get a girlfriend for other reasons. Even if a girl knows that he really is nice there might be other things that cause her to not be attracted to him. Many guys who can't get a girlfriend are actually nice. Some who can't get a girlfriend and constantly need to point out that they are nice, are not that nice. The ones who think they are nice and that girls owe them sex because they are nice, are not nice.

Evidence?

Nice Guys Threads Count: 1000,001

I don't expect a girl to be able to change the world just by whom she dates. In fact, nobody can ever really change the social dynamic in an interaction not involving oneself as a party(*)

All I mean is that a fully nice girl won't hold her greater dating value over a guy's head as some kind of bargaining chip, expecting things from a guy that he couldn't ask for from her. She could also decline to avail herself of sexual opportunities that a guy in her position wouldn't have. Again, it's not that every nice girl HAS to do these things, but doing them goes quite far in making a girl appear "nice" to me.

By the way, I don't think that older women have lower sexual value than guys. Possibly experienced women have low value, but then again there are plenty of guys who prefer that, so I don't think that's really true either.

(*)...except indirectly, as a side effect of the effect of one's actions on supply and demand. For instance, a girl who offers her body freely may change the value of a girl who doesn't, by making female bodies in general "cheaper", and a girl who makes herself scarce does the opposite. But, this kind of effect is general, acting to raise or lower the status of everyone, in other words Mary can't make Bob prefer Kathy to Liz if he doesn't, no matter what she does.

I think a lot of guys who proclaim themselves to be "nice guys" are not actually nice guys, but I don't think any conclusions about a woman's ability to judge character can be made, as those are two separate subjects. I don't think anyone who has ever found themselves in an abusive relationship ever suspected the person would be abusive going into a relationship.

However bitterness is fairly easy to detect as bitter people tend to have a difficult time hiding their bitterness, and I think a lot of guys who have a difficult time socially are bitter.

How is someone supposed to be able to judge another persons character while ignoring them?

To me, the term nice guy implies constantly going out of your way to cater to women. It is essentially validation seeking behaviour, and comes from poor self esteem. I don't see anything inherently evil or horrible about it though.

In my opinion it could be compared to women seeking validation through their sexuality.

Going out of my way doesn't mean I lack self esteem it means I see inherently inefficient world and I see where I can help. Though it is without a doubt an unattractive trait.

This is definitely it. And it makes bitterness super difficult to get out of, as then you don't get the attention you need to dispel the bitterness, so it gets worse. Plus, it certainly doesn't help that as you say ill-intentioned, untrustworthy people often actually get more positive attention than bitter people. That only reinforces the idea that the way the social world judges people is unfair, which is one of the root causes of the bitterness (not the ONLY cause, as in my case chronic illness is also a big part of the picture--but the interpersonal part of the cause).

I think that meeting similarly bitter women would help me re-gain some empathy, because I would get where they are coming from. Yet most bitter women are NOT similarly bitter. In other words, they are generally not bitter about a lack of male attention, if anything they are bitter about getting too much, or about having been divorced, or other stereotypical "woman complaints". The number of women I've ever come across who were "guy bitter" I can probably count on one hand, though I wonder if it's the kind of environments I've been in. I am in the process of starting a chronic illness group--there I will see if there are more of them.

BS

'Tis not uncommon for many of the younger women to be rather blur;
such that their description of ABC actually ends up being described by them as some sort of XYZ;
is it any wonder why such type of women will never ever be a good match for any so-called autistic ?

Those kind of Nice Guys can come off as being creepy. They are often anything but nice. Creepy many of them are. It's not all their fault. They've been groomed and taught that if they're nice so to speak, that they would succeed in romance. They act nice and do nice things with the expectation that they'll get something in return. That being sex and companionship. Women get creeped out by that.

I'm a guy and there's been ONE absolutely good person in my life. They are fun to be around and they are one of the most passive and friendly people I've probably ever met. I am surprised they're so rare. Everyone else usually fills my day with hostilities and insults, except for family. My family is all very supportive because they went through the same thing I constantly go through.