Page 5 of 8 [ 106 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

imhere
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

Joined: 20 Jun 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 195
Location: South Earth

11 Aug 2017, 2:05 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I hope the guy apologizes. He was in the wrong.


That was 4 months ago. There won't be any apologies. People don't tend to apologize if the have no clue they were in the wrong, or no clue that they even made a mistake. And I made it clear that his actions hurt and confused me.



imhere
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

Joined: 20 Jun 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 195
Location: South Earth

11 Aug 2017, 2:15 pm

blackicmenace wrote:
imhere please forgive me if you have said this before, but do you know his sexual orientation? Is it possible he is not straight or maybe even asexual?


I do not think he is homosexual. He expressed interest in one woman before that I am aware of but she rejected him. I do not know if he is asexual, but I'm doubting that too. BUT, even if he were either, why can't he be a friend? See?

I don't think he cares about me in any capacity, friend, girlfriend, anything. If he does, it only makes it even more sad for him to throw it away. I also still don't think he understands the difference between different types of relationships anyway.



blackicmenace
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Nov 2016
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,615
Location: Sagittarius A

11 Aug 2017, 2:47 pm

imhere wrote:
blackicmenace wrote:
imhere please forgive me if you have said this before, but do you know his sexual orientation? Is it possible he is not straight or maybe even asexual?


I do not think he is homosexual. He expressed interest in one woman before that I am aware of but she rejected him. I do not know if he is asexual, but I'm doubting that too. BUT, even if he were either, why can't he be a friend? See?

I don't think he cares about me in any capacity, friend, girlfriend, anything. If he does, it only makes it even more sad for him to throw it away. I also still don't think he understands the difference between different types of relationships anyway.


Perhaps our definition of friendship is just different, not wrong, just different. The parameters are slightly different than that of a romantic relationship. But we still love those that we consider friends, I would gladly give my life to ensure the safety of those I call friends because I love them. As for your friend I would rather not speculate, but maybe he just saw you as a co worker and what you liked about him was the passion he has for his interests. I am sorry you didn't seem to become one of his interests for whatever reason.


_________________
Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.” ― Bertrand Russell


Anngables
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2016
Gender: Female
Posts: 508
Location: Uk

11 Aug 2017, 4:52 pm

The issue I think for us NTs is trying to understand whether an aspie cares or not. You don't show it in the normal ways. You say ask . . I ask and he tells me "yes I care" however friends say to me . . ."he only says that because he has learnt it is the right thing to say . . ." One friend believes my aspie friend is only interested me when he wants something . . I.e. A trip out, some help with an issue or companionship.

I don't want to believe this bit .. . . It basically comes down to the question do Aspies feel emotions . . .. . . And I think is the crucial part of how our relationships become flawed. . . . . . .i am certain my friend does - there have been moments of real warmth and care . . .. . If I text him saying I feel low he will respond within minutes. . . . .he may not know what to do from that point on but his reaction is always to check what is the matter.

However doubt creeps in when I do not hear from him for periods of time . . .. . Why? I think just because the lack of "normal" NT responses means that us NTs are always unsure . . . .. the lack of signs of affection are subtle and often subconscious but mean we are always wondering wondering questioning . .. . This then diversely causes the worst possible reaction questioning, being clingy, demanding attention etc etc . . . .

I have another close male friendship NT(also non sexual) we can go days and days without speaking I never think anything of it . I am sure and certain of how he feels about me because he tells me . . .. he is able to notice small changes in my persona that might suggest I am upset and he will ring me or text me immediately. He can laugh at me when I am irritated which turns my mood around . .. . .

I understand that this difference is the main element of the autistic brain . . . .it is what makes it so difficult to make and maintain and understand social relationships . . . .. I adore my aspie friend I just wished there were a way for me to not question our friendship so often.

Anyway all good at the moment. He text me and we will be meeting Sunday :D :D :D



rdos
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jul 2005
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,814
Location: Sweden

11 Aug 2017, 4:56 pm

imhere wrote:
rdos, I am very sorry that you do not understand the difference between different types of relationships.


Ahh, but that was not what I said. I said I don't know the difference between NT friendships and NT relationships. I know very well what the differences are between an ND friendship and an ND relationship, but you obviously don't (or don't care).

imhere wrote:
But that is exactly case in point if you are an aspie, because neither does my aspie friend and if it were possible to help him understand then it would be possible for me to help you understand, but clearly it is not or otherwise me and the OP would not be in the sad devastating positions we are in.


Given that you cannot explain what an NT friendship and an NT relationship are, and cannot tell me the differences in a way that is understandable, then I cannot see how NTs could possibly educate NDs about these issues. Clearly, you have no idea yourself and you are just going by your own instincts, and that is simply no good if you want to help NDs. I have a feeling that I, as an ND, need to figure out both how the ND preferences work and how the NT preferences work because NTs are totally clueless.

imhere wrote:
Also, you make a baseless claim that NTs go between different types of relationships, and originally you stated just by having sex.


I cannot remember how many times people in L&D have gotten the advice to start a relationship with a friendship. Since this is not natural for NDs, it must come from NTs.

Or are you telling me that NTs cannot go from friendships to relationships? If you are, why on earth do we get all that bad advice then?

imhere wrote:
There is nothing in this thread that suggests in any way that NTs change between relationships, nor did sex come onto the conversation except by you.


It came from an research article (by an NT) that claimed romantic relationships evolved as an exaptation of the infant-caregiver bonding mechanism, and that it then was modified by adding sex and mutual dependence instead of directional.

Are you saying he was wrong? Could you tell me why NTs bond with dating? Surely it isn't the cultural script itself, so then it probably is sex?

imhere wrote:
Again, I am sorry, but if nothing else, if you can see that there is this huge gap in your understanding of human interaction and relationships, then you might see the crux of the problem itself. Our aspies don't get any of it either, and that IS the problem. I want so much to be close to my "friend" but he doesn't know what it means to be close--to have someone to talk to, to share your high and low moments, to know you can rely on someone to be there for you and want to be there for them when they need support, to have someone to share your inner fears and secrets with, to have someone who truly KNOWS you inside and out, etc. But he's NOT there for me, and would rather just withdrawal than have someone there for him. So don't presume to say that is just how aspies are, because that is also the point, it makes my aspie friend no friend at all. I'm just a background part of the environment to him, which is an acquaintance not a friend--but I care so much more than that about him and want to be more than that but you can't have a one sided relationship. Thus the very painful reality that we feel we are forced to drift away because continuing being a good friend to someone who for all intents and purposes treats you like they don't give a damn is hurtful and devastating. It does not matter if there is a disorder to explain it, the rejected and hurt feelings we have are still the same.


I think you have it all wrong. As an ND, I have no benefit from an NT-style friendship, and I certainly am not missing anything significant by not involving in NT friendships. It is YOU that is missing something by not being able to participate in a friendship ND-style. It's your loss, not ours.

The reason I say this is because you are able to adapt to an ND style friendship (if you want to), because it is similar to an acquantance, but as an ND, I simply cannot do close NT friendships because I don't bond with friends like NTs do. If you want a strong bond, you need to go for a relationship, not a friendship.



Last edited by rdos on 11 Aug 2017, 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

blackicmenace
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Nov 2016
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,615
Location: Sagittarius A

11 Aug 2017, 5:04 pm

I mean no offense, but your friends are ignorant. They have the same perspective you are working from so they misinterpret him the same as you are. Just try trusting what he tells you and concentrate on how well you get along when you spend time with him. Remember, you both are operating on different sets of information, his reality is not your own and mistakes and misunderstands are bound to happen.


_________________
Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.” ― Bertrand Russell


boofle
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2016
Gender: Female
Posts: 300
Location: UK

11 Aug 2017, 5:05 pm

Imhere entirely up to you if you engage with rdos but suffice to say he has unique perspectives and from what I have been able to gauge, is usually overfond of *leading* discussions down the ND v NT merry-go-round.
I'll sum it up for you tho, to save him the bother.
NDs only suffer because they try to live according to NT rules. They have their own rules, if they would but let rdos guide them to it.
Or some such.



boofle
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2016
Gender: Female
Posts: 300
Location: UK

11 Aug 2017, 5:09 pm

rdos wrote:
It's your loss, not ours.


This goes both ways. If you dropped the superiority complex, you might see it. Then again it's your loss, not mine.
:cyclopsani:



Anngables
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2016
Gender: Female
Posts: 508
Location: Uk

11 Aug 2017, 5:13 pm

Blackimenace and this is exactly what I try to do . . . .now if I were as ignorant as my friend I would believe her . . .i don't if you read carefully . . .. however this is the crux of the problem, and always will be.

We continue to find our way forward. . . .. and I'm still here and all the time he reaches out to me, and lets me know he wants our friendship it will continue. . . . . I still worry he will forget about me at some point for too long a time and we will have drifted apart. . .. .



Anngables
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2016
Gender: Female
Posts: 508
Location: Uk

11 Aug 2017, 5:17 pm

For information my friend was married to a ND man for many years . . . .. . . I feel she is too tough on him personally. She thinks I am too lenient in my acceptance of my friend. . .. . .. .



rdos
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jul 2005
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,814
Location: Sweden

11 Aug 2017, 5:23 pm

Anngables wrote:
The issue I think for us NTs is trying to understand whether an aspie cares or not. You don't show it in the normal ways. You say ask . . I ask and he tells me "yes I care" however friends say to me . . ."he only says that because he has learnt it is the right thing to say . . ." One friend believes my aspie friend is only interested me when he wants something . . I.e. A trip out, some help with an issue or companionship.

I don't want to believe this bit .. . . It basically comes down to the question do Aspies feel emotions . . .. . . And I think is the crucial part of how our relationships become flawed. . . . . . .i am certain my friend does - there have been moments of real warmth and care . . .. . If I text him saying I feel low he will respond within minutes. . . . .he may not know what to do from that point on but his reaction is always to check what is the matter.

However doubt creeps in when I do not hear from him for periods of time . . .. . Why? I think just because the lack of "normal" NT responses means that us NTs are always unsure . . . .. the lack of signs of affection are subtle and often subconscious but mean we are always wondering wondering questioning . .. . This then diversely causes the worst possible reaction questioning, being clingy, demanding attention etc etc . . . .

I have another close male friendship NT(also non sexual) we can go days and days without speaking I never think anything of it . I am sure and certain of how he feels about me because he tells me . . .. he is able to notice small changes in my persona that might suggest I am upset and he will ring me or text me immediately. He can laugh at me when I am irritated which turns my mood around . .. . .

I understand that this difference is the main element of the autistic brain . . . .it is what makes it so difficult to make and maintain and understand social relationships . . . .. I adore my aspie friend I just wished there were a way for me to not question our friendship so often.

Anyway all good at the moment. He text me and we will be meeting Sunday :D :D :D


I think you are basically right. It is the problems of sharing emotions between NDs and NTs that causes all of these issues. It is not a specific "dysfunction" in the ND brain because I'm hypersensitive to emotions from NDs. It's the NT way I cannot handle naturally, and especially not when things are online. That's why ND-NT interactions need to be very concrete. You need to ask NDs explicitly how they feel, tell them how you feel and what you need. Something NTs don't need to do between themselves, and NDs don't need to do that either between themselves.



rdos
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jul 2005
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,814
Location: Sweden

11 Aug 2017, 5:25 pm

boofle wrote:
rdos wrote:
It's your loss, not ours.


This goes both ways. If you dropped the superiority complex, you might see it. Then again it's your loss, not mine.
:cyclopsani:


Not, it doesn't. I cannot do NT style close friendships. NTs can do ND style friendships if they want to.



imhere
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

Joined: 20 Jun 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 195
Location: South Earth

11 Aug 2017, 6:29 pm

You are not helping or contributing positively to this discussion rdos. The whole point is what we, as NTs, feel when trying to be friends with an aspie that we care about and how that leaves us feeling unfulfilled and we don't know what to do. We do not want to be mere acquaintances, which is what you seem to say is our only option and we are to be happy with that because you say so. Just stop. You do not understand, you misinterpreted most of what was said, you are a self-proclaimed expert on ND relationships, and you are pushing your own agenda into a NT/Aspie argument. No one wants to see that crap. We are all here and learning from each other. Some of the Aspies here have said they appreciate the NT perspective because it helps them understand where they may have had problems with NTs. And, by the way, NTs make up the vast majority of the population of the planet that all of us, NT and Aspie, have to interact with every single day of our lives! So you cannot live in a vacuum in a perfect ND-only space. And no offense to all the wonderful people here, but you are wrong, Asperger's IS very much a disability, by it's very definition!! And some of us love you regardless!! And in some cases, it is the very nature of some of a person's individualized aspie traits that we love about you!!



Anngables
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2016
Gender: Female
Posts: 508
Location: Uk

11 Aug 2017, 10:18 pm

NT - NT friendships . .. . Ok so I have lots of friends . .. . .. a friend is someone I would arrange to meet with, we would have each other's telephone number, we know a fair amount about each other's personal life and we have interests in common.

I have different friends I do different things with . . . .so I have my party friends . . ..they will call me up and invite me to parties, or gatherings and we will go to festivals,together. We have fun and good times. Outside of these events we may contact each other sporadically just to check everything ok
I have work friends - these are colleagues I get on with well. So we will talk about issues in our lives, issues in work. We will have each other's phone numbers and may chat via whatsapp etc a fair bit

Long term friends . .. .friends I have known for many many years . .. . .we don't have to see each other very often of speak very often. We know we will always be there for each other. Some of my long term friends live in other countries so they will always contact me when they are over here, we will meet up and spend hours chatting as if we had only seen each other the day before. I consider these people true friends

Then we have a small collection of people whom i feel really "get" me they understand how I tick . .. . They can often see why I am doing something in a certain way before I realise. We can have really deep conversations about almost any subject. We share the same outlook and philosophy on life. These are the people I can feel completely comfortable with.

Not sure if that helps . .. .



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 64,816
Location: Queens, NYC

11 Aug 2017, 10:54 pm

Anna. I think it's human nature to enjoy challenges. This man presents a challenge. The challenge itself probably adds vitality to your relationship with him.

What would happen if he, all of a sudden, catered to your every whim?