Sitting Next To Girl...

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hurtloam is absolutely right. Trying something like that will only get you laughs (either in your face or behind your back) and may in fact work against you--if the assistant does have any influence, she won't actually help someone who pulls crap like that get a job.

Well...maybe some women would, but you need to ask yourself if that's really the kind of work environment you're seeking. Do want the job, or do you just want to get laid?

The job thing is an analogy. I’ve noticed it to be fairly consistent. HR is HR, and the same fundamentals apply whether you’re seeking a job or seeking a romantic partner.

I know for a fact this stuff works. I haven’t submitted a resumé for anything in over a decade. My present job I got because my kids go to that school and it was well known among the elementary teachers that I used to teach middle/high school music. I got an 11th hour phone call asking if I was interested, and by the time I got back from vacation it was already too late. When I returned the call, the principal and I agreed it wasn’t the right time. A year later I had the chance to meet the guy and asked how things were going and he asked for an interview early the next week.

My previous job I actually wasn’t looking for that job. I was trying to take over a private piano studio and had no idea the band teacher was leaving. I didn’t even apply for that job. It was pure coincidence, right place and right time.

I did drop a resumé on my current church gig, which I did on the advice of an old college friend who was leaving the position. I wasn’t technically qualified for it. But I’d subbed for another pianist during Wednesday lunch a time or two and people remembered that. Next thing I know I’m on staff and eating my meals for free.

I don’t actively advertise my freelance work. That’s sheer word-of-mouth, plus I’m well-acquainted with one of the best caterers in town. I probably should advertise. But I just did an engagement party Friday night, AND the same family has booked me for a wedding in March. Another good friend has booked me for a November wedding and has EXCEEDED my fee all in advance AND wants me to contract out for an additional musician. Every year I can usually expect a charitable organization to book me for their annual fundraising formal.

Romantic partners? Musicians are a kind of subculture, hence why we pair up so much early on. I had a brief fling with an opera singer. She worked part-time in a university music library, so I met her while doing research. I once had a great relationship with a pianist. She was the accompanist for one of the best young clarinetists in that studio and I was stricken the instant I saw her. I volunteered as her page-turner, and we were dating within weeks. My wife had been suffering physical and emotional abuse at the hands of a former frat brother who I’d known since high school (bass clarinet player, and we’d competed in several high school events together). I helped her get away from him, which I’ll say is NOT a good way to start a relaionship. But since we kept coming back to each other, it was best that we got married. There was another girl, a saxophone player who was looking to get out of a bad relationship. That fizzled quickly, but we ended on good terms.

There are a few more examples that follow roughly the same pattern—civic organizations or musical groups, people in them or connected to people in them. I didn’t necessarily wait for all of them to end relationships with current bf’s. What I DID do was make myself available. Getting romantically involved with IAR women, in retrospect, was not my brightest moment. But I still would have made friends and spent time with them.

Oh, and I’m not just making this stuff up. Mostly I draw from my own experience, yes. However, I’m not saying anything new or original. Stephen Covey (7 Habits), Dale Carnegie (How to win friends and influence people), Dave Ramsey (Entreleadership), Sun Tzu (Art of War), Yahweh (the Holy Bible), Robert Greene (48 Laws of Power), Ayn Rand (Atlas Shrugged) have all said or written very similar things as I have, and you can find many more writers and philosophers who’ve echoed these things throughout millennia. I should also point out I haven’t mentioned a single source of PUA literature. If anything, at best PUA’s are cheap imitations. The best guides for relationships are timeless.

It often SOUNDS diabolical or weird, but that kind of thing is EFFECTIVE. Getting a job, making friends, romantic involvement—it’s ALL HR.

Personally, I wouldn't try any of the, with respect, nonsense, that Mr AngelRho has suggested. Get yourself a decent woman, not the sort of fickle, loose woman who can be manipulated by empty strategies practiced by empty personalities. Unless, of course, you're only interested in sex, but in that case there are easier, surer, more honest alternatives than that sort of adolescent puerility - in vulgar terms, "pay for it". I don't think sex for its own sake will make you happy though.

Last edited by Prometheus18 on 21 Oct 2018, 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Last edited by SaveFerris on 21 Oct 2018, 11:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

His strategy is a sure way to end up your resumé in garbage bin.

Sometimes I wonder who’s the weirdest here, AngelRho or rdos.

“Get yourself a decent woman...”

That’s the trick, though, isn’t it? That’s precisely what we’re going for. Except every time we try to do that, we find her facebook says she has a bf.

Ok...so you make up your mind when they break up, you’ll make your move. Then she says she just needs some alone time. Ok, cool. So you give it a week. Then you ask her out, and she says how you’re a wonderful guy and all, but she’s already got a bf.

Your solution is...what, exactly? Just keep on waiting? For how long? For who? When half the girls out there already have the next guy already lined up, and you’re never that guy? It seems to me always ending up on the losing side makes less sense than doing what it takes to get a foot in the door.

Winners will keep on winning.

Besides, I don’t preach telepathy, nor do I push the idea that making googly eyes at someone across the room means you have a relationship. I also haven’t advocated anything that is really a new or unproven idea. Art of War, 48 Laws of Power, and the Bible all encompass timeless lessons of how people relate to each other (48 Laws is a recent title, but it references a wide range of historical figures, including Sun Tzu and Jesus among others).

To expand somewhat on the earlier discussion:

My main focus is an optimistic view of human beings’ value of each other amidst the destructive nature of human depravity. It’s impossible to find a man or woman who doesn’t act in self-interest. Hope for humanity lies within our tendency to look at those we love as personal material possessions. You love your gf or wife the same as you do an expensive house, car, or clothing. You want your car to run for a long time, so you maintain it and avoid situations that might ruin it. You want your house to protect you, so you maintain it and fill it with things that give you comfort. You want your partner to be with you for a long time, so you do your part to be kind, keep him or her in good clothes and good health, and say/do whatever he or she wants.

People are merely a means to an end. A house can be destroyed and rebuilt, or bought and sold as your needs change. Cars eventually wear out and can be traded. It is in nobody’s best interest to fixate on one home, one car, one friend, one job, or one romantic partner. You can’t assume fidelity because your partner can always drop you for a better model. You’d be foolish to hang all your hopes on one car and never consider the next car you want to buy. Same thing with a bf or gf. Shop around. Keep an open mind.

The miracle of human self-interest is fully manifested when two people share the same self-interest in each other. They agree that mutual self-interest is best served by staying together and willingly surrender the will of one to the other for the will of two-as-one. It’s a selfish act because it requires both to act according to personal, individual values. The miracle is that these values happen to overlap.

Friendships are also manifestations of overlapping self-interest.

As are jobs. You want to make money? Me too! You need talent? I have talent. You have the space and tools for me to work? I need space and tools. Let’s work together and WIN!

The very things that make us evil are the very things that save us, hence why I’m always optimistic about the human condition.

I don’t submit resumés because I EXPECT to be offered the job the moment I ask for it. I don’t waste my time asking for jobs I know I won’t get. And I wouldn’t ask a girl out I didn’t already know I had no chance with. I’d form a relationship FIRST. THEN I’d ask her out because I know she’d accept.

I wouldn’t ask a girl out expecting a romantic relationship. I’d ask her out so I wouldn’t have to spend the entire weekend alone. I wouldn’t ask a girl for an exclusive relationship expecting marriage. I’d ask because I’m not interested in anyone else at the moment. And if I asked a girl to marry me, it would be because I expect her to say yes.

Boo, I hate to say it, but you’ve really gotten to me if I’m quoting you TWICE.

I wonder...do you think it could be possible for me to outweird rdos? I’m the kind of guy who might be up for the challenge. Are you suggesting a contest? Perhaps you could be the judge/moderator.

I'll leave it to the ladies to tell you.

I don't have Facebook, but I can see what you're saying. I can't believe, however, that ALL the decent women are taken, though most probably are. Either way, like I said before, if it's decent women you're looking for, you've got to persevere; if it's casual sex you're looking for, it's be more logical to visit a brothel rather than making a spectacle of yourself chasing after "girlfriends" you despise anyway. Indeed, to put it crudely, you might as well just masturbate.

As for your second paragraph, I think I've already mentioned that the sort of woman who goes from man to man as others change clothes isn't worth inviting into one's life anyway - I certainly wouldn't consider her a "decent" woman.

I don’t mean to make an unfair generalization, so no, this certainly doesn’t apply to all women. It should be assumed that there are always exceptions to the rule. It’s just this behavior seems to increasingly be the norm. If this is the rule, or standard behavior, it makes the most sense to adapt to it.

My own tactics when I was younger were underhanded. I recognize and admit that I could have done things better. I’m not proposing anyone repeat my mistakes. But the bf/gf relationship has inherent weaknesses. I want to see people on the winning side of this.

I don’t see women, or even men, who do this as inherently evil, at least no more than what human nature dictates. It’s not “right” or “wrong.” It just “is.” But I would agree that I’d avoid a girl with a revolving door. It’s just a matter of deciding how much bf turnover you find acceptable.

If I had it to do over again, I’d impose a 3-month limit on a relationship.

Is that a euphemism for "I suppose a blow job is out of the question?"?

You made me wonder... many stable, long-term relationships I know personally started with at least one side in a relationship at the time they met. What did the other side do? Keep in touch. Share interests. Get to know each other better and better. Oh, maybe look for other options in the meanwhile, too. The point is, when the previous relationship fell apart, they were there.
But I live in Central Europe, inter-gender friendships are very common here while dating rituals are not required at all.

Not only that.

But the “Single” status on fb is no guarantee that she is single.

A lot of people don’t annouce their relationship unless it’s formal; there were women (ex crushes) whom I assumed they were single due to their status on fb and them never having couple pics, and suddenly they post pics of their engagement.

Ok, so consider the UK dating scene. There are looser attitudes towards sex but they lack the hookup culture we have in the USA. You’re more likely to have sex in the UK, just not as likely to have sex with someone you just met, which we tend to do. In France, things are a bit more reserved. Going on a date with someone carries the expectation that you ARE in a relationship. The reason for that is the French don’t date. Mixed-gender companions are commonplace and taken for granted. There’s no expectation there. If two “friends” kiss, it’s understood that they are more than friends. Brits also tend to be exclusive from the get-go, but it’s impossible to just roll up in a bar or a gym and get a date. They tend to already know people they might date.

So if I were to advise someone on relationships in UK or France, just as an example, I’d say involve yourself as much as possible in local culture and inject yourself into these local circles. It takes more time to crack.

In the USA, it doesn’t take quite as long to break into the dating scene. Most of us don’t assume the other person isn’t seeing someone else. We tend to lump “going out” with someone, anyone, as “dating” whether she’s a gf or not. We don’t typically come out and say we’re dating exclusively—in otherwords, we don’t introduce each other as “my bf/gf”—until we have this awkward conversation about “what we are.”

I’m curious what it’s like in Central Europe where you live. TBH, I’m no fan of American dating rituals. The French, from what I understand, really have it together in that department. I think I’d be confused by the tendency of French woman towards flirting because I struggle with body language. I think French women might make being friends more fun. I do like the idea of women being more in control in the relationship. In the USA, men are expected to take the initiative. It’s easier like that in some ways because all we have to is make decisions and handle ourselves with confidence to win her respect. But I actually prefer women who are more direct. American women tend to expect men to already know what they want, and I am very bad at guessing games.

What I would like:
Her: Take me out for ice cream.
Me: right away!

What I get:
Her: take me out tonight
Me: what would you like?
Her: meh, you decide
Me: cool! Let’s eat steak
Her: I dunno...not really in the mood
Me: no biggie. mexican food
Her: we just ate Mexican two weeks ago.
Me: all good. We’ll go to that new Italian place.
Her: yeah, but we just had pizza on Saturday
Me: we haven’t eaten chinese in a while.
Her: Ew!
Me: you said you liked it.
Her: I know but...eh...
Me: so what would you like?
Her: it doesn’t matter. Whatever you like.

Well, in Central Europe it is close to the French version but less flirty. I mean you live in mixed circles, do activities, go to parties, etc. in mixed groups and you just spend more time with the people you like more. It's not considered dating to have a coffee or beer with someone of opposite sex. I regularily dine with my coworkers (mostly males because I work in a male-dominated place) and everybody knows it's all just about having a nice company, I'm married and in Poland by default it means I'm not to be considered at all.
It usually takes months of having non-dating time together before two persons decide to go to the next step. When they call it a date, it is considered a begining of a relationship. Sex, at least in my social circle, requires another few months of dating, but I know some other social circles have it different. However, hugs ang cheek kisses are not exclusive to your romantic partner, but don't expect anything more.