Bigotry against involuntarily celibate men
08 Dec 2018, 6:40 am
sly279 wrote:
I didn’t say retail I said no one. Now employer anyway is going pay more then min wage for someone who works part time.
If it's no one that must be a situation very specific to the USA as I know people who make good money with part time jobs. One of my cousin makes as much money with 20h/weeks as my father does with 40/h weeks and his salary is above min wage too.
But you need skills to get such a job and you need to make your employer believe that you're not easily replaceable. (and you don't need a job this well paid just notably better than min wage)
I won't make any statement about whether it is possible for you now or could ever be but in principle it is not impossible.
sly279 wrote:
Most women won’t date a guy who’s just sustaining himself, that won’t buy a house, cars, vacations or pay for kids to grow up.
They want a guy who makes 22+ an hour working full time so someone part time would have to make twice as much.
They want a guy who makes 22+ an hour working full time so someone part time would have to make twice as much.
A lot of women want what you describe and a lot of men who don't meet these standards still have families. You don't need to become perfect but as of now you're in an exceptionally bad situation for attracting a partner. (That is if you actually are better of giving up than if you keep trying I won't try to dissuade you from it. If giving up is better or if making a change is worth the effort and stress it comes with only you can know.)
sly279 wrote:
First my parent doesn’t have a place my mom me and my sister share a place we rent together.
I’m sure I’d i got a gf they’d understand me moving out to live with her but moving out when I don’t need to is a as*hole move that will ruin lives for no reason. Would you make your mom homeless just so you might impress some women? What would a potential gf think of you doing so? People always tell women to judge a man on how he treats his mom and I’d guess throwing her out on the street would send a bad message to potential gfs
I’m sure I’d i got a gf they’d understand me moving out to live with her but moving out when I don’t need to is a as*hole move that will ruin lives for no reason. Would you make your mom homeless just so you might impress some women? What would a potential gf think of you doing so? People always tell women to judge a man on how he treats his mom and I’d guess throwing her out on the street would send a bad message to potential gfs
If you get a date again, make sure that, when you eventually admit you're living with your mother, you make sure to word it in a way that makes it clear you're not living off of her money.
Still your situation is problematic, because it is obvious that under these circumstances you can't just move out (without letting people down you care about). Even if you had a girlfriend for years the process of you and her moving in together would not be an easy one. And that too is obvious.
sly279 wrote:
I worked full time few months a year 10 years ago. Ended up getting fired cause one day I had enough of it. In between working those months I did no work for 9 months. I honest think about quitting a lot as is
I’m always tired and I only work 4 hour shifts but they stress me out and exhaust me.
I’m always tired and I only work 4 hour shifts but they stress me out and exhaust me.
What makes you tired though. If it's the interaction with customers then maybe you do need a different kind of job (In which case Grand Inquisitors advice to up-skill is a good one - you don't necessarily need another degree or any expensive thing. While those help getting jobs what you absolutely need is the skills.)
sly279 wrote:
Well maybe you should take your advice and move out without your brother as that’s be living with family. Which would be the same situation your criticizing me about.
Here you are telling me I need to move out and screw my family over when you plan to rent with your brother 0.o
Here you are telling me I need to move out and screw my family over when you plan to rent with your brother 0.o
No, sorry but his situation and yours sound completely different. First of all he is 22 and his situation is not stagnant. A prospective partner has no reason to assume that his current situation is how he will spend the rest of his life.
There's also no indication that he won't be able to move out of the place he rents with his brother without the brother getting homeless.
08 Dec 2018, 7:06 am
NorthWind wrote:
sly279 wrote:
I didn’t say retail I said no one. Now employer anyway is going pay more then min wage for someone who works part time.
If it's no one that must be a situation very specific to the USA as I know people who make good money with part time jobs. One of my cousin makes as much money with 20h/weeks as my father does with 40/h weeks and his salary is above min wage too.
But you need skills to get such a job and you need to make your employer believe that you're not easily replaceable. (and you don't need a job this well paid just notably better than min wage)
I won't make any statement about whether it is possible for you now or could ever be but in principle it is not impossible.
sly279 wrote:
Most women won’t date a guy who’s just sustaining himself, that won’t buy a house, cars, vacations or pay for kids to grow up.
They want a guy who makes 22+ an hour working full time so someone part time would have to make twice as much.
They want a guy who makes 22+ an hour working full time so someone part time would have to make twice as much.
A lot of women want what you describe and a lot of men who don't meet these standards still have families. You don't need to become perfect but as of now you're in an exceptionally bad situation for attracting a partner. (That is if you actually are better of giving up than if you keep trying I won't try to dissuade you from it. If giving up is better or if making a change is worth the effort and stress it comes with only you can know.)
sly279 wrote:
First my parent doesn’t have a place my mom me and my sister share a place we rent together.
I’m sure I’d i got a gf they’d understand me moving out to live with her but moving out when I don’t need to is a as*hole move that will ruin lives for no reason. Would you make your mom homeless just so you might impress some women? What would a potential gf think of you doing so? People always tell women to judge a man on how he treats his mom and I’d guess throwing her out on the street would send a bad message to potential gfs
I’m sure I’d i got a gf they’d understand me moving out to live with her but moving out when I don’t need to is a as*hole move that will ruin lives for no reason. Would you make your mom homeless just so you might impress some women? What would a potential gf think of you doing so? People always tell women to judge a man on how he treats his mom and I’d guess throwing her out on the street would send a bad message to potential gfs
If you get a date again, make sure that, when you eventually admit you're living with your mother, you make sure to word it in a way that makes it clear you're not living off of her money.
Still your situation is problematic, because it is obvious that under these circumstances you can't just move out (without letting people down you care about). Even if you had a girlfriend for years the process of you and her moving in together would not be an easy one. And that too is obvious.
sly279 wrote:
I worked full time few months a year 10 years ago. Ended up getting fired cause one day I had enough of it. In between working those months I did no work for 9 months. I honest think about quitting a lot as is
I’m always tired and I only work 4 hour shifts but they stress me out and exhaust me.
I’m always tired and I only work 4 hour shifts but they stress me out and exhaust me.
What makes you tired though. If it's the interaction with customers then maybe you do need a different kind of job (In which case Grand Inquisitors advice to up-skill is a good one - you don't necessarily need another degree or any expensive thing. While those help getting jobs what you absolutely need is the skills.)
sly279 wrote:
Well maybe you should take your advice and move out without your brother as that’s be living with family. Which would be the same situation your criticizing me about.
Here you are telling me I need to move out and screw my family over when you plan to rent with your brother 0.o
Here you are telling me I need to move out and screw my family over when you plan to rent with your brother 0.o
No, sorry but his situation and yours sound completely different. First of all he is 22 and his situation is not stagnant. A prospective partner has no reason to assume that his current situation is how he will spend the rest of his life.
There's also no indication that he won't be able to move out of the place he rents with his brother without the brother getting homeless.
Spot on
youcameandchanged
Raven
Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Age: 27
Gender: Male
Posts: 106
Location: It's for me to know, and for you to find out
08 Dec 2018, 8:43 am
OK, fine, since this only looks like a random link and therefore doesn't catch attention, I'll stop beating 'round the bush: do you think that "try to understand women and befriend them" a lazy shortcut that creates frustrated "nice guys", or is it good advice? I ain't even involuntarily celibate, but I know somebody who has dating problems and has been called out for being overly direct in picking up women, and that's the advice he's been given. (In a shouty manner that makes him not want to listen.) Part of me agrees, but part of me is like, "his intentions wouldn't suddenly gonna turn pure and non-sexual if he were to do that, he'd still be after the same thing." IDK, what I get from here is that if he wants to be this direct, he should maybe try more sexualized environments than supermarkets and video game stores.
MOD Edit: cross-posting
08 Dec 2018, 12:02 pm
I have to defend Sly at least somewhat.
He is in a complicated situation whereby his benefits keep his family with a roof over his head. He is not totally living off his family. He is helping his family, in fact.
If he works full-time, he loses his benefits. This might cause his family to lose where they live. It’s a complicated situation he is in. But he is not a leech.
I wish the other members of his family would seek to “better themselves.” That would inspire Sly to “better himself.”
I wish he would stop with that ideology whereby there’s no hope for him to find love, though. It’s totally useless, and probably not correct.
08 Dec 2018, 12:16 pm
I wish he'd stop with the ideology that there's no point looking for another job.
I don't understand people who wallow in unhappy situations. Whenever I've been unhappy I've moved on.
I've been criticised for it by people who think that you should just stay put and stick it out like thats some kind of moral high ground, when in fact they're just too scared of change and they enjoy moaning about it because it lets people see how "strong" they are for sticking out an unpleasant thing.
Also, I can now earn part time what I would have earned full time in an entry level job. It is possible.
08 Dec 2018, 1:05 pm
kraftiekortie wrote:
I have to defend Sly at least somewhat.
He is in a complicated situation whereby his benefits keep his family with a roof over his head. He is not totally living off his family. He is helping his family, in fact.
If he works full-time, he loses his benefits. This might cause his family to lose where they live. It’s a complicated situation he is in. But he is not a leech.
I wish the other members of his family would seek to “better themselves.” That would inspire Sly to “better himself.”
I wish he would stop with that ideology whereby there’s no hope for him to find love, though. It’s totally useless, and probably not correct.
He is in a complicated situation whereby his benefits keep his family with a roof over his head. He is not totally living off his family. He is helping his family, in fact.
If he works full-time, he loses his benefits. This might cause his family to lose where they live. It’s a complicated situation he is in. But he is not a leech.
I wish the other members of his family would seek to “better themselves.” That would inspire Sly to “better himself.”
I wish he would stop with that ideology whereby there’s no hope for him to find love, though. It’s totally useless, and probably not correct.
Very true, it is a complicated situation but unfortunately who or what caused the situation doesn't change much about what effects that situation has on his life currently.
I think this:
The Grand Inquisitor wrote:
I'm not telling you to screw your own family over. Why can't they get by without you?
is an important question.
What stops his mother or sister from improving their situations?
Are they content with their situation?
If not, could all three of them (or two of them) try to make a change together?
08 Dec 2018, 1:21 pm
kraftiekortie wrote:
I wish Sly would go for something like X-ray technician....or something in health care.
I get the idea of Sly training for something that will pay more per hour and possibly be more enjoyable but what
opportunities are there in his area. Moving away to train is not an option without disrupting the whole family. It
would also need to be for a job that a)exists in his area and b)can be done on a part time basis. This is the same
problem I had for years. We could really do with a list of jobs that are autism friendly, that are flexible enough, such
as in hours, to fit around our issues.
_________________
climate change petition, please sign
Petition against Amazon selling 'make downs extinct' t-shirts. And other hate speech paraphernalia.
08 Dec 2018, 1:26 pm
As for being independent, we are all dependent on the societies we live in. If anyone truly had to make it entirely
on their own, they wouldn't last five minutes.
_________________
climate change petition, please sign
Petition against Amazon selling 'make downs extinct' t-shirts. And other hate speech paraphernalia.
The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 41
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 32,890
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.
08 Dec 2018, 2:32 pm
fluffysaurus wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Yeah, I don't think your paycheck necessarily equals social status. Who your family is in the community, whether or not you were popular in primary and secondary, whether you stayed on an achievement arc, in our case whether or not you have a disability, it's based on a lot of very social Darwinian factors that you can't simply make up by merit, by being tough or intrepid, I suppose its worth being those things for its own sake (ie. having better things, entertaining yourself with what you learn, the 'giving back' factor) but it still seems like most of the data people are looking to gather on you is a life-long averaged portfolio and for most people at least half or more of those things aren't in their control.
I would be considered a loser in a lot of ways, socially especially:
- I have very very few friends, and most of them were acquired via my brother not via myself, while I am close to two of them now it's not of my own social achievement really, it just happened.
- 36 and still not in a formal relationship, and no such potential thing in the near future.
- While I have a good salary now (compared to my country's GDP), I work in a very small startup company which may or may not survive in the upcoming five years, and no exit plan so far except few tiny freelance tasks. A lot of my former colleagues work in big and multinational companies now.
- I have never succeeded to get a job outside my country, like in the GCC countries where a lot of my fellow college colleagues worked for some years, thanks to their social connections, and came back with a nice fortune.
- I have failed to form long term relationships with local women, to many, this is a sign of inadequacy and alienation.
- I've traveled to very few countries, didn't much experience a lot of adventures.
Which of these things are really really important to you?
Point 2 and last point.
08 Dec 2018, 4:57 pm
NorthWind wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I have to defend Sly at least somewhat.
He is in a complicated situation whereby his benefits keep his family with a roof over his head. He is not totally living off his family. He is helping his family, in fact.
If he works full-time, he loses his benefits. This might cause his family to lose where they live. It’s a complicated situation he is in. But he is not a leech.
I wish the other members of his family would seek to “better themselves.” That would inspire Sly to “better himself.”
I wish he would stop with that ideology whereby there’s no hope for him to find love, though. It’s totally useless, and probably not correct.
He is in a complicated situation whereby his benefits keep his family with a roof over his head. He is not totally living off his family. He is helping his family, in fact.
If he works full-time, he loses his benefits. This might cause his family to lose where they live. It’s a complicated situation he is in. But he is not a leech.
I wish the other members of his family would seek to “better themselves.” That would inspire Sly to “better himself.”
I wish he would stop with that ideology whereby there’s no hope for him to find love, though. It’s totally useless, and probably not correct.
Very true, it is a complicated situation but unfortunately who or what caused the situation doesn't change much about what effects that situation has on his life currently.
I think this:
The Grand Inquisitor wrote:
I'm not telling you to screw your own family over. Why can't they get by without you?
is an important question.
What stops his mother or sister from improving their situations?
Are they content with their situation?
If not, could all three of them (or two of them) try to make a change together?
We get housing which is based off the 3 of us and will be loss when I move out. They’d be understanding if I was moving out to be with a gf but not just moving out to hopefully impress women.
This house will probably be strike 3 for my mom with housing
My moms on disability and has been her whole life
My sister works as her home care giver.
08 Dec 2018, 5:36 pm
kraftiekortie wrote:
I have to defend Sly at least somewhat.
He is in a complicated situation whereby his benefits keep his family with a roof over his head. He is not totally living off his family. He is helping his family, in fact.
If he works full-time, he loses his benefits. This might cause his family to lose where they live. It’s a complicated situation he is in. But he is not a leech.
I wish the other members of his family would seek to “better themselves.” That would inspire Sly to “better himself.”
I wish he would stop with that ideology whereby there’s no hope for him to find love, though. It’s totally useless, and probably not correct.
He is in a complicated situation whereby his benefits keep his family with a roof over his head. He is not totally living off his family. He is helping his family, in fact.
If he works full-time, he loses his benefits. This might cause his family to lose where they live. It’s a complicated situation he is in. But he is not a leech.
I wish the other members of his family would seek to “better themselves.” That would inspire Sly to “better himself.”
I wish he would stop with that ideology whereby there’s no hope for him to find love, though. It’s totally useless, and probably not correct.
I'm in a similar situation to Sly. I've got a full time job and the money I earn from that contributes to keeping a roof over the whole family. In the future we're going to pool our resources and finally buy a family house so my parents don't have to rely on renting any more.
If I moved out on my own not only would it hurt the family now, but it'd drastically slow down the time it'll take for us to buy a house as I waste all my earnings on unnecessary rent.
08 Dec 2018, 6:55 pm
sly279 wrote:
We get housing which is based off the 3 of us and will be loss when I move out. They’d be understanding if I was moving out to be with a gf but not just moving out to hopefully impress women.
This house will probably be strike 3 for my mom with housing
My moms on disability and has been her whole life
My sister works as her home care giver.
This house will probably be strike 3 for my mom with housing
My moms on disability and has been her whole life
My sister works as her home care giver.
What's the nature of your mum's disability?
08 Dec 2018, 7:03 pm
Sabreclaw wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I have to defend Sly at least somewhat.
He is in a complicated situation whereby his benefits keep his family with a roof over his head. He is not totally living off his family. He is helping his family, in fact.
If he works full-time, he loses his benefits. This might cause his family to lose where they live. It’s a complicated situation he is in. But he is not a leech.
I wish the other members of his family would seek to “better themselves.” That would inspire Sly to “better himself.”
I wish he would stop with that ideology whereby there’s no hope for him to find love, though. It’s totally useless, and probably not correct.
He is in a complicated situation whereby his benefits keep his family with a roof over his head. He is not totally living off his family. He is helping his family, in fact.
If he works full-time, he loses his benefits. This might cause his family to lose where they live. It’s a complicated situation he is in. But he is not a leech.
I wish the other members of his family would seek to “better themselves.” That would inspire Sly to “better himself.”
I wish he would stop with that ideology whereby there’s no hope for him to find love, though. It’s totally useless, and probably not correct.
I'm in a similar situation to Sly. I've got a full time job and the money I earn from that contributes to keeping a roof over the whole family. In the future we're going to pool our resources and finally buy a family house so my parents don't have to rely on renting any more.
If I moved out on my own not only would it hurt the family now, but it'd drastically slow down the time it'll take for us to buy a house as I waste all my earnings on unnecessary rent.
Well at least in your case you ultimately have a plan. But like I said to sly, if you do get a partner, they're probably going to want to live with just you. How do you make that work when you've got a share in a family home?
08 Dec 2018, 8:09 pm
The Grand Inquisitor wrote:
Sabreclaw wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I have to defend Sly at least somewhat.
He is in a complicated situation whereby his benefits keep his family with a roof over his head. He is not totally living off his family. He is helping his family, in fact.
If he works full-time, he loses his benefits. This might cause his family to lose where they live. It’s a complicated situation he is in. But he is not a leech.
I wish the other members of his family would seek to “better themselves.” That would inspire Sly to “better himself.”
I wish he would stop with that ideology whereby there’s no hope for him to find love, though. It’s totally useless, and probably not correct.
He is in a complicated situation whereby his benefits keep his family with a roof over his head. He is not totally living off his family. He is helping his family, in fact.
If he works full-time, he loses his benefits. This might cause his family to lose where they live. It’s a complicated situation he is in. But he is not a leech.
I wish the other members of his family would seek to “better themselves.” That would inspire Sly to “better himself.”
I wish he would stop with that ideology whereby there’s no hope for him to find love, though. It’s totally useless, and probably not correct.
I'm in a similar situation to Sly. I've got a full time job and the money I earn from that contributes to keeping a roof over the whole family. In the future we're going to pool our resources and finally buy a family house so my parents don't have to rely on renting any more.
If I moved out on my own not only would it hurt the family now, but it'd drastically slow down the time it'll take for us to buy a house as I waste all my earnings on unnecessary rent.
Well at least in your case you ultimately have a plan. But like I said to sly, if you do get a partner, they're probably going to want to live with just you. How do you make that work when you've got a share in a family home?
I move out eventually after we’ve dated for year or so. I don’t plan to just jump into a living situation with someone I’ve only known for few months
His plan is to live with his family forever, hows that better then me? Mean once he buys the house with his family he’s with them forever or forfets his share he put in.
