Claims that a few "super hot men" are hogging all the women

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Would you want the kind of woman who digs those sorts of guys?

People fall for all sorts (which should be further proof that it’s not impossible), but most straight women want nice guys. People tend not to stay in abusive relationships. I certainly didn’t, and I wouldn’t have got with him if I knew that he wasn’t nice at the start.

Abusers don’t usually show their true colors right away.

The thing is no one is stopping someone who wants to have a traditional lifestyle. If a guy wants a traditional woman to be the homemaker go for it! Find that woman and marry her. There are still plenty in areas of the Midwest and the south of the United States.

Just don't expect every woman to go along with it. Some of us like our jobs and and the security we get from it.

Like have you ever read Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austin? The character Charlotte Lucas was an example of a woman who was not the most attractive and who had to settle on marrying a man she didn't love so she did not become a burden to her family. The best she could hope for was that at least he mostly left her alone. And the idea of having to return to those days?? Forget it. Never.

Not all of them. Some are based on service for pay -- the classic "Gold Digger marries Wealthy Codger" and "Gigolo Marries Wealthy Widow" relationships are not just stereotypes.

All relationships, however, involve social transactions -- the study of which is called "Transactionalism".

"... a philosophical approach that views social exchange as a fundamental aspect of human existence; all human exchange is best understood as a set of transactions within a reciprocal and co-constitutive whole..."

Source: This Wikipedia Article

AND men will chase after a woman who is hot, even if she is a complete racist nut job...

https://www.cracked.com/blog/4-things-i ... file-ever/

So you see... it's not just women. HUMAN BEINGS make poor choices. Like... I don't understand why you guys refuse to get this when it's completely obvious.

What I mean is that there is more emotion and nuances involved than a mathematical business transaction. You can’t use a mathematical formula to figure out how attracting a mate is going to go (unless we’re talking about gold diggers or mail order brides).

Sorry, but I think you are wrong on that point. In my area of the world, intelligence is not something that many people of either sex seek out in a mate. I seek it first, but I am a rarity. Most people are seeking looks far and above the other qualities you listed. That directly relates to the swiping mentality on the phone apps. I do not see people looking at the others education first and then deciding what direction to swipe. They make their determinations on looks alone.

Personally, I do not have skin in the game, as I know my social skills (and self-esteem) are just too low to get and sustain a real relationship. Unfortunately, others have asked me if I was gay due to my decision not to date. I have to set them strait each time that I am heterosexual, but not dateable, which gets old fast. It is interesting to see normal guys struggle in the area of dating, to the point that a few of them also simply gave up on the whole mess.

I think "traditional" can mean different things to different people. From what I recall, you've said that you grew up in a very sex segregated cult with rigidly defined rules and punishments for male and female.

Other "traditional" roles aren't that black and white or that restrictive. My Dad grew up on a farm and most of his now elderly relatives are still farmers. His ancestors were farmers. Farm families from where he's from had "traditional" roles for men and women. I can tell you with certainty that the women in my Dad's family have a voice and the roles compliment each other such that the families as a whole prosper and have done so for generations. Are the women regarded as subordinate? Oh my gosh, no. They're absolutely considered equals. The women can step up and do many of the kinds of "men's" work if needed; conversely, most of the men in my Dad's family wouldn't be able to cook at such a high level or sew or quilt like the women are capable of. The women run the household and often the financial aspects of the farm business along with their husbands. No voice? Far far from it. Their talent, knowledge, versatility and toughness is awe inspiring. Years ago, one of my Dad's aunts had a tooth that was giving her terrible pain. Dentist? Nope. She took a pliers and pulled her own tooth out of her head. Tough as nails. Women are respected as equals in my family and always have been even with my older female relatives and those from prior generations mastering and living wonderfully in their "traditional" role.

I just happen to like progress. I like that people aren’t segregated so much based on gender - that we don’t have to conform to masculine or feminine roles. I like that women have access to birth control and abortions if need be. I like that there’s gay rights. I just like living in the present time period.

I realize that my experience of “traditional roles” may be stricter than somebody else’s, but I still like progress and nonconformity over the idea of “tradition.” When I hear that word, my gut reaction is to fight against it. I hear “Tradition!!” from Fiddler on the Roof resounding in my ears. LOL

I’m also a person of my generation, I think. I don’t like the word “conservative,” either.

I fully support people having different viewpoints. Using words like "segregation", etc make it sound like the women in my extended family and other women in similar agrarian families had and have no choice. The women I describe not only wanted to fill the roles of wife, mother, farmer and businesswoman, they were proud of their achievements and their accomplishments. They loved their lives. They were some of the happiest people in my memories; joking, laughing, playing cards and enjoying the fruits of very hard work.

I didn’t mean to imply that. I live in an area with a lot of Amish and Mennonites. There’s a lot of the old type of religious-based “tradition” that I especially despise... They don’t have a lot of choices or options (Amish drop out of school in 9th grade), and they lose everything when they leave.

I’m happy if people are free to make the choices they want to.

I'm not of the same mind as Boo that this thread should be locked, but you have attributed beliefs to me that I never claimed to hold. I'm sure it's an honest misunderstanding, so I'll clarify my position.

Mona Pereth wrote:

Lately I've seen quite a few claims by men here that the reason they can't get laid is because vast numbers of "average women" are having sex with just a few "super hot men" or "alpha males." Below I'll post the latest iteration of this claim, from another thread here, and my response to it

That's not exactly what I said. What I said was that there is a decline in men having sex that is greater than the decline in women having sex. I think there are a few factors involved. One of which is online dating, or more specifically hook-ups through online dating.

I don't think "a few" men are monopolizing "all" the women. I do think though that men who are looking for a hook-up are more likely than women to "settle" for someone less attractive than they are. So men who are 8s might sleep with women who are 6s, and men who are 6s might sleep with women who are 4s for example. This could be leading to women believing that they can get better relationship partners than they can, and thus inflating their standards. Or they may just enjoy hooking up with better-quality men than they'd be able to be in a relationship with and decide not to date altogether.

If you are a man who is "bottom of the barrel", and women are looking upwards at higher value men than themselves, your prospects are pretty bad.

Other reasons for this decline could be female sexual fluidity as you suggested, as well as the fact that women outnumber men in colleges and universities, and college-educated women generally want a college-educated man where the opposite isn't really true. It's also the case that more men are staying home with their parents later than women and so that could contribute too. I don't think it's common for a woman who's moved out of home to want to date a man who still lives at home.

As to "claims by men here that they can't get laid because...", I have said several times on this site that certain unattractive traits are predictors for this romantic isolation, like living at home, being unemployed or underemployed, being overweight or obese, etc, so it's a gross mischaracterisation to assert that I'm not taking any ownership in my own traits that are working against me, or not giving ownership to others for theirs, and I'm just chalking it down to "oh well, it's women's fault I'm not getting laid".

Furthermore, something that is getting annoying is people hyperbolising and straw-manning my vuse a on self-improvement to attract women. I'll tell people that living at home, not making enough to sustain an independent living and being overweight and neglecting your health are generally not attractive to women, and then someone will go "oh you think women want this perfect man who has it all", and no, I don't. All I'm simply saying is that if you are failing to attract a woman and you have all the negatives I listed above, there's probably a causal link, and making improvements on even one of two of the negative predictors for success I listed above will probably improve your chances with women.

Oh, and don't quote me and then make inferences about what I might hlbe saying, because in this case you misconstrued it into something I never said and made a whole post attacking it.

I would just hope for your sake that you understand that your extreme experience is very atypical. I can understand your strong reflex against your experience, but I was prompted to respond since it seemed like you were applying your experience as being synonymous to "traditional" male and female roles as a whole.

My Mom was 100% a city girl. She was very independent and had an office job at a large company. She was very selective in who she decided to date. She had her own mind and wasn't afraid to speak it for anything.

My Mom thought the my Dad's aunts, farm women, were amazing. She took to them and respected them greatly. Would she have done that if they had "no voice"? Not hardly.

Ultimately I think "traditional" roles are on a spectrum then with your experience being extreme and not indicative of "traditional" roles of women in general who I believe do have a voice.

Am I reading this right that this thread was started today and already has 93 replies. It'll take me a while to catch up, but it seems like someone hit a nerve.

There are a lot more fundamentalists in the country than you would probably think who, of course, uphold traditional, biblical views towards marriage and male and female roles.

In any case, there’s nothing wrong with being a nonconformist and wanting to break with tradition, provided that no laws are being broken. I like to march to the beat of my own drum.

The world’s big enough for a lot of diverse attitudes and values (although some are certainly unhealthy.) I just know what I, personally, like.

Dating prospects have gotten scary in all honesty. I've ran into quite few extreme archetypes when it comes to men (mostly online since I am introverted to a fault).

There are a lot who seem desperate or obsessive, for lack of better wording. I'm a very slow person when it comes to getting to know people. I don't really like jumping into things for the most part. But there's a lot of guys who don't seem to get that point. They seem to think that just because I am talking to them, means that I am super into them. And get way too vocally intimate with me right away. They also tend to be the types to randomly dm me without having spoken before either.

Then there are guys who are borderline hostile with me on sight, just because I am a woman. Absolutely refusal to treat me seriously, and also tend to be the types to read heavily into those statistics. Also the same kind that calls any woman who isn't a virgin a whore. I guess your typical 4chan keyboard warrior.

There's plenty of guys outside of these stereotypes of course but holy hell, have I been seeing influxes of those particular types. Last 2 guys were broken from past relationships, to boot. And got broken up with because of it both rounds.