Claims that a few "super hot men" are hogging all the women

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Mona Pereth
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22 Jun 2019, 4:07 pm

Lately I've seen quite a few claims by men here that the reason they can't get laid is because vast numbers of "average women" are having sex with just a few "super hot men" or "alpha males." Below I'll post the latest iteration of this claim, from another thread here, and my response to it.

Here, in the thread "Just be friendly.", the following was quoted:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/number-of-men-under-30-who-havent-had-sex-in-last-year-tripled-in-past-decade

Quote:
The share of U.S. adults reporting no sex reached an all-time high last year, according to the latest data from the General Social Survey. Nearly 23 percent of adults between the ages of 18 to 29 were celibate in 2018, more than double the number since 2008...

One surprising result from the data was that a much larger than expected number of the sexless individuals were men. For most of the past three decades, men and women in their twenties reported similar rates of sexlessness. Since 2008, however, the share of men younger than 30 reporting no sex has nearly tripled—compared to an eight percentage point increase reported among females of the same age group.

Further down in that same thread, here, another person posted the following graphic:

Image

and blamed the rise of online dating, which he claimed makes it easy for "average women" to have sex with "super hot men," while making it very hard for "average men" to get a date with "average women."

Then, here, I wrote:

Or perhaps more women are now having sex NOT with "super hot men" but with each other? As noted in my previous post, women's sexuality tends to be more fluid than men's. (See this review of the book Sexual Fluidity by Lisa Diamond.) And apparently there has been a trend toward more and more women identifying as lesbian or bisexual, such that lesbian and bisexual women now outnumber gay and bisexual men, whereas, decades ago, gay and bisexual men outnumbered lesbian and bisexual women.

See also Why Are So Many Girls Lesbian or Bisexual? Girls today are three times more likely than boys to be non-heterosexual. Why? by Leonard Sax M.D., Ph.D., in Psychology Today. In particular:

Quote:
Female sexuality is different from male sexuality. If a straight boy kissed another boy, perhaps to amuse some girls who might be watching, he would be unlikely to undergo a change in sexual orientation as a result. But, as Professor Roy Baumeister at Florida State University and others have shown, sexual attraction in many women seems to be more malleable (see note 3 below). If a teenage girl kisses another teenage girl, for whatever reason, and she finds that she likes it—then things can happen, and things can change. If a young woman finds her soulmate, and her soulmate happens to be female, then she may begin to experience feelings she's never felt before.

Especially if all the guys she knows are losers.

Which brings me to the second point I've encountered in my interviews with young people. Twenty years ago, when I opened my practice in a suburb of Washington DC, it was rare to find 14-year-old boys who were looking at pornography every day. Today it's common—in fact, it's becoming the norm. When I meet with a group of 14-year-old boys and I ask them, "how many of you guys subscribe to a porn site?", all hands go up. I don't believe them. But today, no boy wants to admit that he's the weirdo who doesn't look at online porn. Twenty years ago, hardcore pornography was tucked away in adult bookstores. Today any 14-year-old can access such photos online in seconds. Role models for young men, from pop singer John Mayer to the 2009 World Series MVP Hideki Matsui, talk openly about their collections of porn (see note 4, below).

Is there any connection between these two trends—between the rise in the number of young women who self-identify as lesbian or bisexual and the increasing normalization and acceptance of pornography in the lives of young men? Maybe there is. A young woman told me how her boyfriend several years ago suggested that she shave her pubic hair so that she might more closely resemble the porn stars who were this young man's most consistent source of sexual arousal. She now identifies herself as bisexual. "It was just such a welcome change, to snuggle under a blanket on the couch with my girlfriend, watch a movie, and talk about God and death and growing old, to be intimate emotionally and spiritually as well as physically. I don't know a guy who could even comprehend the conversations we have."

Note that the above was published back in 2010. It would be interesting to try to find statistics on whether the above-mentioned trends have accelerated since then.

EDIT: I should also clarify that I don't necessarily consider men who can't get dates to be "self-made losers." However, they may be facing a shortage of women that may be caused, in part, by lots of men (not necessarily including themselves) behaving in ways that are a turnoff to women.

EDIT: I have made numerous changes to this post in response to complaints by one person later in this thread. I'm sorry for any offense caused by earlier wording. Hopefully this thread can remain open as a result.


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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 22 Jun 2019, 7:51 pm, edited 5 times in total.

Prometheus18
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22 Jun 2019, 4:20 pm

I really feel sorry for those men who obsess over this kind of thing.



Mona Pereth
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22 Jun 2019, 4:33 pm

The above-quoted article speculates that many young women these days are getting more and more turned off by men in general (and preferring other women instead) because of men's behavior due to unrealistic expectations caused by watching too much porn.

If indeed that's true, then what's the solution?

Alas, I don't think it's realistic to try to get men to stop watching porn, given how easily available porn is in today's world.

But maybe it might be possible for men to be persuaded to watch a different kind of porn? Perhaps men should be encouraged to watch porn that is made by women, portraying sex as the women producers themselves like it, and showing the male viewer how to be a better lover? Perhaps if more men were to watch that kind of porn, more men would be better in bed and fewer women would get turned off to men altogether?


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22 Jun 2019, 4:42 pm

Speaking from experience, just because a guy is super hot doesn’t mean he’s a good lover. That’s for sure!

I’m no stranger to thinking about exploring my bi side, actually. I do think of my own sexuality as being fluid and not fixed firmly at either point on the spectrum.

I think that women might expect more these days from a male partner, not in terms of physical attraction or career, but as far as emotional, intellectual, and sexual fulfillment go. Now there’s a complete package!



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22 Jun 2019, 4:48 pm

I'm Super Hot ( could be a fever ) and hog all the women - get over it :twisted:


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Prometheus18
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22 Jun 2019, 4:53 pm

Like with anything, men need to be educated about the dangers of pornography and, if banning it is infeasible, legislators need to consider regulating it (as heavily as they can). The UK is in the process of introducing effective pornography "licenses" which must be purchased physically in stores, which would be required to access pornographic websites. This is an excellent first step.

I understand why and how women are losing interest in men. Frankly, if I were a heterosexual woman today, I'd very quickly lose interest in men upon coming of age. As a heterosexual man, I've lost interest in women for similar reasons (I believe both masculinity and femininity have declined catastrophically in this part of the world).

At any rate, I don't think porn is the sole cause of men's ineffectuality and emasculation, but an effect of an underlying cause, which is the cult of self-indulgence and abnegation of responsibility that has emerged since the 60s. They've bought into the pernicious lie that they can enjoy an unlimited amount of pleasure without paying for it and shirk their responsibilities (usually handing them on to the government or their parents (more often parent singular, given the absence of dads, itself a cause of this problem)) and don't know what they've done wrong when women scorn these sorts of attitudes, given that they've unwisely trusted those peddling the above lie.

I don't think the only manifestation of this problem of male ineffectuality is porn, however. To name a few, I'd also list things like rampant drug addiction; the desire to retreat into a fantasy world, usually consisting of video games; the tendency towards gross perversions such as sadomasochism; poor educational performance; juvenile delinquency; sentimentalism; inarticulacy; the cult of mindless thrills in things like the biker culture and films like "Jackass"; the inability to take themselves seriously; slovenly dress; poor hygiene; the eschewal of responsibility; the deferment of marriage and parenthood.

I don't want to be unfair on men though; I reiterate that both sexes have declined in a way that may well ultimately threaten the viability of western civilisation itself, so low is it on social capital.

I know it will be controversial, but I've concluded that it's only through a return to traditional, nominally Christian values that there is any hope for the next generation, or even mine.



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22 Jun 2019, 4:56 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
The above-quoted article speculates that many young women these days are getting more and more turned off by men in general (and preferring other women instead) because of men's behavior due to unrealistic expectations caused by watching too much porn.

If indeed that's true, then what's the solution?

Alas, I don't think it's realistic to try to get men to stop watching porn, given how easily available porn is in today's world.

But maybe it might be possible for men to be persuaded to watch a different kind of porn? Perhaps men should be encouraged to watch porn that is made by women, portraying sex as the women producers themselves like it, and showing the male viewer how to be a better lover? Perhaps if more men were to watch that kind of porn, more men would be better in bed and fewer women would get turned off to men altogether?


I said recently in a thread on the adult forum that visual instruction might not be a bad thing, especially for visual learners.



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22 Jun 2019, 5:04 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Speaking from experience, just because a guy is super hot doesn’t mean he’s a good lover. That’s for sure!

I’m no stranger to thinking about exploring my bi side, actually. I do think of my own sexuality as being fluid and not fixed firmly at either point on the spectrum.

I think that women might expect more these days from a male partner, not in terms of physical attraction or career, but as far as emotional, intellectual, and sexual fulfillment go. Now there’s a complete package!


Your last paragraph - I was going to mention this in my other post:

Both my grandmother and my mother got married to men who asked them. They married these men, not necessarily for love but for security. My grandmother never worked a day in her life. She raised the kids and tended the home. And she was a bitter, miserable woman who died angry and hating everyone because she felt like life cheated her. My mother married a man for basically the same reason, although at least she did have a job of her own so she was able to contribute to the household although she was still pretty unhappy.

A lot of women now are more educated, they have careers, and they expect more. They don't have to marry for security - to just survive - , so they're not going to marry just some guy because he asks. So for a lot of guys, just showing up is no longer enough. And it seems like a lot of guys are either really super angry about this or they're just dropping out completely (going their own way) because that's easier than admitting that maybe they need to do some work on themselves to become more of an attractive partner.


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22 Jun 2019, 5:10 pm

I read that in the developing world more women are choosing not to have sex as well. Particularly a problem in Japan.

I think the problem specific to the west is
i) the rise of online hookups and dating has mean't average girls can now have temporary relations and one night stands with alpha males purely for entertainment. All they have to do is "swipe left" if they see an average guy on their "dating app" and advertise themselves to alphas (whom let's face it is who they really want for a good time).

ii) The rise in the entertainment industry has mean't large numbers of average looking girls are choosing to be "fan-girls" to celebrities and high profile men rather than date average men.

iii) More young women (and we are talking really average looking) are involved in dating older wealthy men who pay for their lifestyle

Even as early as the 1990s I used to hear how easy it was for an average girl to hookup with a "stud" in a nightclub or bar. Now they can do this in 5 minutes on their phone.

When you consider that for the average Aspie male that good looking NT girls are already "out of reach" then they have to compete for available average girls who are looking for a long term relationship and there's really not a lot left in this pool particularly as you get older (beyond 30).

What flabbergasted me back in the 1990s was having really overweight girls arrogantly flaunting that they had standards (and here was I a good looking young guy thinking I'm the one doing them a favour) and by the time mobile phones started taking off you had the dating scenario where a prospective date could simply ignore you on the first date by staring at their phone either communicating with their friends on how their date sucks or looking on their dating app for something better.

In my view the above does contribute to young girls spending time with a "smaller" spectrum of few males and all the ":good ones" were taken in highschool or college. Those left over are picky and/or indulge in single life. By the time they get over single life they are usually wanting to get married to a wealthy/professional who can take care of their lifestyle.



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22 Jun 2019, 5:19 pm

Luhluhluh wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Speaking from experience, just because a guy is super hot doesn’t mean he’s a good lover. That’s for sure!

I’m no stranger to thinking about exploring my bi side, actually. I do think of my own sexuality as being fluid and not fixed firmly at either point on the spectrum.

I think that women might expect more these days from a male partner, not in terms of physical attraction or career, but as far as emotional, intellectual, and sexual fulfillment go. Now there’s a complete package!


Your last paragraph - I was going to mention this in my other post:

Both my grandmother and my mother got married to men who asked them. They married these men, not necessarily for love but for security. My grandmother never worked a day in her life. She raised the kids and tended the home. And she was a bitter, miserable woman who died angry and hating everyone because she felt like life cheated her. My mother married a man for basically the same reason, although at least she did have a job of her own so she was able to contribute to the household although she was still pretty unhappy.

A lot of women now are more educated, they have careers, and they expect more. They don't have to marry for security - to just survive - , so they're not going to marry just some guy because he asks. So for a lot of guys, just showing up is no longer enough. And it seems like a lot of guys are either really super angry about this or they're just dropping out completely (going their own way) because that's easier than admitting that maybe they need to do some work on themselves to become more of an attractive partner.


There were some bad marriages in my family, too. Both sets of my grandparents, actually.

A lot of people got married because they got pregnant and marrying is what you were supposed to do. With the advent of birth control pills (and less strict views regarding marriage), women have more options and don’t feel as though they have to stay in a bad relationship because of a baby.

Now that we have more options, we can be choosier, end a relationship if it doesn’t work out, and gradually find out what we want and are looking for. Let’s face it: we don’t always know what we’ll want for the rest of our lives at 20. Sometimes it takes maturity to figure out what kind of person we truly want and are looking for.



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22 Jun 2019, 5:23 pm

cyberdad wrote:
I read that in the developing world more women are choosing not to have sex as well. Particularly a problem in Japan.

I think the problem specific to the west is
i) the rise of online hookups and dating has mean't average girls can now have temporary relations and one night stands with alpha males purely for entertainment. All they have to do is "swipe left" if they see an average guy on their "dating app" and advertise themselves to alphas (whom let's face it is who they really want for a good time).

ii) The rise in the entertainment industry has mean't large numbers of average looking girls are choosing to be "fan-girls" to celebrities and high profile men rather than date average men.

iii) More young women (and we are talking really average looking) are involved in dating older wealthy men who pay for their lifestyle

Even as early as the 1990s I used to hear how easy it was for an average girl to hookup with a "stud" in a nightclub or bar. Now they can do this in 5 minutes on their phone.

When you consider that for the average Aspie male that good looking NT girls are already "out of reach" then they have to compete for available average girls who are looking for a long term relationship and there's really not a lot left in this pool particularly as you get older (beyond 30).

What flabbergasted me back in the 1990s was having really overweight girls arrogantly flaunting that they had standards (and here was I a good looking young guy thinking I'm the one doing them a favour) and by the time mobile phones started taking off you had the dating scenario where a prospective date could simply ignore you on the first date by staring at their phone either communicating with their friends on how their date sucks or looking on their dating app for something better.

In my view the above does contribute to young girls spending time with a "smaller" spectrum of few males and all the ":good ones" were taken in highschool or college. Those left over are picky and/or indulge in single life. By the time they get over single life they are usually wanting to get married to a wealthy/professional who can take care of their lifestyle.


Should “really overweight” girls not have standards? 8O

Most women are not desirous of dating alpha males. Read back over this thread to get a clearer picture.



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22 Jun 2019, 5:36 pm

Prometheus18 wrote:

I don't think the only manifestation of this problem of male ineffectuality is porn, however. To name a few, I'd also list things like rampant drug addiction; the desire to retreat into a fantasy world, usually consisting of video games; the tendency towards gross perversions such as sadomasochism; poor educational performance; juvenile delinquency; sentimentalism; inarticulacy; the cult of mindless thrills in things like the biker culture and films like "Jackass"; the inability to take themselves seriously; slovenly dress; poor hygiene; the eschewal of responsibility; the deferment of marriage and parenthood.


Dude! Did you steal my diary :lol:


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22 Jun 2019, 5:43 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I read that in the developing world more women are choosing not to have sex as well. Particularly a problem in Japan.

I think the problem specific to the west is
i) the rise of online hookups and dating has mean't average girls can now have temporary relations and one night stands with alpha males purely for entertainment. All they have to do is "swipe left" if they see an average guy on their "dating app" and advertise themselves to alphas (whom let's face it is who they really want for a good time).

ii) The rise in the entertainment industry has mean't large numbers of average looking girls are choosing to be "fan-girls" to celebrities and high profile men rather than date average men.

iii) More young women (and we are talking really average looking) are involved in dating older wealthy men who pay for their lifestyle

Even as early as the 1990s I used to hear how easy it was for an average girl to hookup with a "stud" in a nightclub or bar. Now they can do this in 5 minutes on their phone.

When you consider that for the average Aspie male that good looking NT girls are already "out of reach" then they have to compete for available average girls who are looking for a long term relationship and there's really not a lot left in this pool particularly as you get older (beyond 30).

What flabbergasted me back in the 1990s was having really overweight girls arrogantly flaunting that they had standards (and here was I a good looking young guy thinking I'm the one doing them a favour) and by the time mobile phones started taking off you had the dating scenario where a prospective date could simply ignore you on the first date by staring at their phone either communicating with their friends on how their date sucks or looking on their dating app for something better.

In my view the above does contribute to young girls spending time with a "smaller" spectrum of few males and all the ":good ones" were taken in highschool or college. Those left over are picky and/or indulge in single life. By the time they get over single life they are usually wanting to get married to a wealthy/professional who can take care of their lifestyle.


Should “really overweight” girls not have standards? 8O

Most women are not desirous of dating alpha males. Read back over this thread to get a clearer picture.


The thing is, a savvy overweight woman who is still reasonably attractive knows she can get a date because we know men tend to treat overweight women as the low-hanging fruit - the ones who are easy to get so they don't have to try very hard. (and your comment about "doing them a favor" makes that pretty clear) So if that woman knows that, yes, she can be choosy if she just wants some fun for that night. Sounds to me like you thought she would be an easy lay and were just ticked off that it didn't work out for you. :lol:


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22 Jun 2019, 5:44 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Should “really overweight” girls not have standards? 8O

What I mean't is even the "least desirable" girls were putting on airs like they were too good for the likes of me! I guess it's a high self-esteem thing so it caught me by surprise (not what I was expecting).

Twilightprincess wrote:
women are not desirous of dating alpha males. Read back over this thread to get a clearer picture.

You can't fight biological programming. As I have posted before girls with lower standards are picked up fairly quickly in high-school or college. What you have left over are the picky ones with high (often unrealistic) standards. The single girls who don't have high standards but still on the market are either not choosing to date due to self-esteem issues or get taken off the market due to their agreeableness to date the first dude who comes around.



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22 Jun 2019, 5:46 pm

Luhluhluh wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I read that in the developing world more women are choosing not to have sex as well. Particularly a problem in Japan.

I think the problem specific to the west is
i) the rise of online hookups and dating has mean't average girls can now have temporary relations and one night stands with alpha males purely for entertainment. All they have to do is "swipe left" if they see an average guy on their "dating app" and advertise themselves to alphas (whom let's face it is who they really want for a good time).

ii) The rise in the entertainment industry has mean't large numbers of average looking girls are choosing to be "fan-girls" to celebrities and high profile men rather than date average men.

iii) More young women (and we are talking really average looking) are involved in dating older wealthy men who pay for their lifestyle

Even as early as the 1990s I used to hear how easy it was for an average girl to hookup with a "stud" in a nightclub or bar. Now they can do this in 5 minutes on their phone.

When you consider that for the average Aspie male that good looking NT girls are already "out of reach" then they have to compete for available average girls who are looking for a long term relationship and there's really not a lot left in this pool particularly as you get older (beyond 30).

What flabbergasted me back in the 1990s was having really overweight girls arrogantly flaunting that they had standards (and here was I a good looking young guy thinking I'm the one doing them a favour) and by the time mobile phones started taking off you had the dating scenario where a prospective date could simply ignore you on the first date by staring at their phone either communicating with their friends on how their date sucks or looking on their dating app for something better.

In my view the above does contribute to young girls spending time with a "smaller" spectrum of few males and all the ":good ones" were taken in highschool or college. Those left over are picky and/or indulge in single life. By the time they get over single life they are usually wanting to get married to a wealthy/professional who can take care of their lifestyle.


Should “really overweight” girls not have standards? 8O

Most women are not desirous of dating alpha males. Read back over this thread to get a clearer picture.


The thing is, a savvy overweight woman who is still reasonably attractive knows she can get a date because we know men tend to treat overweight women as the low-hanging fruit - the ones who are easy to get so they don't have to try very hard. (and your comment about "doing them a favor" makes that pretty clear) So if that woman knows that, yes, she can be choosy if she just wants some fun for that night. Sounds to me like you thought she would be an easy lay and were just ticked off that it didn't work out for you. :lol:


[email protected] exactly this!! !