Response to an article about "gaslighting"

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I found this article online, and I disagree with it - https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/is-it- ... rs-0311194. I appreciate that this is just one article by one author, but I have read similar articles before.

Most of us know what "gaslighting" is from the film "Gaslight" in which this guy manipulates the female protagonist by making her doubt her sanity so that she doubts the evidence of her eyes and ears.

The article gives the following example of "gaslighting" in a relationship, from the perspective of the "victim":

"It would be one thing if we just fought like other couples who eventually make up. But that’s not how it is with us. Instead, we argue about something, and he tells me I’m being irrational. Or childish. Or critical. Then he shuts down. Often, he storms out of the room. If I try to bring it up later, he tells me I’m imagining things, that he didn’t say that, or if he did say it, he didn’t mean it the way I took it. He says I’m being too sensitive. And he shuts down again. I’m left feeling as if I’ll explode with frustration. I’m furious. And I have nowhere to go with it. I start to wonder if he’s right about me. I don’t know what to believe anymore. Is this gaslighting?”"

The article then goes on to say that "one way" to look at this situation is to describe it as gaslighting, which left me hopeful that the author would go on to suggest that this may not be what happened. But she doesn't. Rather, she focuses on the fact that the guy with Asperger's is not doing it deliberately whilst still seeing it as a problem that needs to be addressed.

But why is that automatically "gaslighting" on his part? Is it not possible that she really is being irrational and childish? Couldn't she be the one gaslighting him? And if she is not being irrational, why can't she just out-argue him using logic?

To me, articles like this exist to make irrational people feel better about themselves and to give them a tool to guilt-trip their partners. It's basically saying "I know what I'm saying is factually wrong and completely unfair and that I chose to start this argument instead of leaving you in peace, but you have to let me win otherwise I'll cry".

I mean... it is still a problem, whether or not the person is aware of it or not. You don't have to be aware of something for it to be a problem that needs work.



Sometimes people say or do irrational things, but that doesn't mean you should shut down and tell someone they were imagining things. What if you thought you were completely in the right, but your partner refused to acknowledge your thoughts on something important to you? What if they said you were being childish? Would you listen, or would you get upset and not listen? I bet you'd do the latter.

Out-arguing people doesn't work, we're not in debate club in high school. During an argument the best things you can do are
1. not insult your partner by calling them names (such as "childish" or telling them they're being "too sensitive").
2. listen to what they are saying, rather than planning on what you will say next while they are talking.
3. reframing their words so you both know you're on the same page ("What I hear you saying is that you feel angry when I shut down during an argument rather than talk with you.")
4. compromising on a solution (this isn't the same as accepting blame, abuse, or condoning behaviors though).
5. If you feel too angry to talk during a fight, tell your partner you need to go cool down, but will come back to them when you're ready (and PLEASE, for the love of everything that is holy, actually follow through on it in a timely manner [e.g., same day]).

Shutting down and refusing to work through things with your partner, and/or telling them mean things doesn't ever solve anything, and it's very unbecoming.

That's gaslighting.

If someone calls me irrational, childish, delusional, overdramatic, oversensitive -- any type of name calling, says that I'm imagining things, or says that my feelings are "wrong" and theirs are "right", I'm done. Game over.

Insult words are a dealbreaker.

It's OK to argue, to have a difference of opinion, or to be "wrong" about a situation, but that doesn't give anyone the right to insult, invalidate, patronise, or belittle the other person's opinions, thoughts or feelings -- or to become hostile and shut down a conversation without reciprocal dialogue and joint problem solving.

The irony is that gaslighters get angry if you call them out for gaslighting. They deny it, get angry, and call you more names to prove you're wrong. It's a vicious cycle. It won't end.

Proper communication would sound more like this:

"Why do you feel that way? What happened? Here's my point of view _________________. I'm upset. I need some time to think and process. I hope we can resolve this because your feelings matter, but mine do too".

It doesn't take much to be a grown adult and have a conversation, instead of treating your partner like a child.

I can see why gaslighting has caught on, as it's a powerful metaphor, but I think R.D. Laing's use of the terms mystification and double bind are more helpful. He uses them to discuss not only intentional confusion, but also misrepresentation which is unintentional.

One of my favorite Youtubers who hits on this constantly is named Theramin Trees. His grasp of the situation, people, and personalities is spot-on. He often covers religious cults but he had a really good video on infantilization, ie. when people either won't let you do things for yourself or constantly cut in front of you to get a job done and seem to be sabotaging your ability to cultivate your own competence - and they get offended when you do go off and develop that competence on your own.

When people used to call it 'insecurity' I'm sure in the deepest Maslow sense that's true but it's something way worse - it's an underhanded tactic to win at someone else's expense by keeping them powerless, keeping from grasping reality, keeping them from being self-sufficient, often a bit of all of these.

I think these 3 things can be pretty common with Aspies in a serious romantic relationship~ Shutting down, Storming out of the room, & Not meaning things the way their partner took it. Shutting down could be cuz the Aspie is unable to process things like their emotions or is overwhelmed with things. Storming out of the room could be cuz the Aspie is having a meltdown & is maybe afraid he/she might snap at their partner. It's also pretty common for Aspies to do & say things that are misunderstood by NTs. There are healthier ways to handle things thou than the way the Aspie in that article is. A healthy way would be for the Aspie to leave the insult words out like Irrational, Childish, Critical, & Sensitive. The Aspie should also be willing to discuss things after he/she had a chance to calm down & process things. Be willing to own their behavior & explain what the Aspie meant that got misinterpreted. It would also be a great help if the Aspie would be apologetic for the way his/her behavior affected their partner like "I'm sorry you misunderstood" & "I'm sorry I upset you by shutting down &/or storming out of the room". Both partners should be willing to listen to each other & be willing to try to work on things to avoid repeat incidents in the future. Arguments can be unavoidable sometimes, especially in mismatched relationships where one person is & Aspie & the other is NT but people can learn & grow from them even if they don't see eye to eye.

No, I'd argue back using logic if I thought I was right and apologise if I saw that I had genuinely been in the wrong. This is how grown-ups should handle disputes. It's about taking ownership of your behaviour.



It should work. If it doesn't work on person X then that's their character flaw, not mine.

[quote[During an argument the best things you can do are
1. not insult your partner by calling them names (such as "childish" or telling them they're being "too sensitive").[/quote]

That's not calling someone names. That's making an accusation. Just like they made an accusation at me when they started an argument. The difference being that I'm prepared to back that accusation up with a rational argument and they're not.

If people really are being childish and irrational then they should own that and change their behaviour rather than demanding that the rest of the world allow them to get away with it. If they don't like hearing that they are behaving irrationally then they should stop doing it. They are like the kid at school who constantly picks fights with the bigger kid and then goes crying to the teachers when he loses.



This is a non-sequitur. If I argue against what they're saying then that doesn't mean I haven't listened. They shouldn't need me to do this.



No it's not.

What if I don't like my girlfriend talking to other men - regardless of context - because I am paranoid that she will cheat on me with them? Should she compromise to keep me happy, or is she entitled to tell me where to stick it?

Compromising is OK if you're talking about issues that are simply a matter of personal preference, e.g. some people are clean freaks whereas others are more relaxed about getting housework done. But sometimes there is a principle involved, in which case there really is a right and wrong answer.



I don't think it's fair to call it "mean" if what I am saying is accurate.

Last edited by TimmyBoy on 21 May 2020, 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

Couldn't delete, double posted accidentally

Last edited by TimmyBoy on 21 May 2020, 8:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

But clearly you think your feelings are right and the other person's feelings are wrong - hence you started the argument in the first place.

It's only gaslighting if you are trying to manipulate someone by lying to them about reality - not when you are actually telling the truth and they are being delusional.



You don't get to start an argument with someone and then accuse THEM of being hostile. That would be like Germany calling Poland "hostile" in 1939.

Calling someone irrational if they are being irrational is a valid criticism, not an insult. Insulting would be saying something like "well you're fat!". If you don't like being called out for irrational behaviour, stop doing it. Insisting that you be allowed to get away with it because criticising you "hurts your feelings" is emotional blackmail.



But sometimes it's not simply a matter of a personal point of view. What if I saw my girlfriend talking to a male colleague, flew off the handle and accused her of having an affair with him? Wouldn't that be a completely outrageous accusation? Wouldn't my girlfriend be entitled to tell me I was being controlling and ridiculous?



A grown adult conversation involves discussing facts and logic - not pandering to you just because you "feel" a certain way.

What if I made a racist or homophobic comment? What if I said I thought women should stay at home doing the housework all day, make sure a piping hot meal is on the table for me when I got in at work and have sex with me whenever I wanted it? How would you react? Would you acknowledge and validate my feelings? Would you compromise with me?

I honestly think this is just a holier-than-thou attitude that people adopt as a defence mechanism when they are losing an argument that they started - "I can't win using logic like an adult, so instead I'll cry about them being mean".

That's not what I said.
Right and Wrong are words that shouldn't be used, period, by myself or by the other person. Saying Right and Wrong is a version of name calling and it implies one person's feelings are invalidated and dismissed. There is no "right" or "wrong" type of feeling to have, because our feelings just are what they are. Both people's feelings are legitimate even if they differ. It's totally normal to have a difference of opinion, but it's not OK to hurl insult words back and forth.







I don't start arguments. I prefer not to be in the company of other people who start arguments. Of course, arguments sometimes happen regardless. As long as both parties hear each other out, and they don't set up a power imbalance with words like "right, wrong, crazy, delusional, irrational", then a discussion can take place. It's called "problem solving". It's not called "insult and belittle your partner, or allow them to insult you".





Your girlfriend would have the right to be upset and to tell her point of view, but that doesn't mean she can call you names. She doesn't get to say you are "crazy, wrong, insane" etc. She can ask why you think so, and she can tell you the truth of what's happening. The scenario above doesn't have to be vile, insulting or heated. If you fly off the handle and start calling her names such as "cheater, slut, liar" etc., that's a different story. If you refuse to believe her and you insist she is having an affair, she can say "I'm sorry you don't trust me", and end the relationship without being snide.






"Facts and Logic" aren't presented by berating someone, or calling them names. You are adding an unnecessary layer of verbal abuse, judgement, and insult. If you made a mistake at school would you expect your teacher to call you "crazy, immature, irrational, delusional or nuts" ? Would you call your child those words if they were "wrong"? I hope not. There's a way to present facts and logic without losing your temper. It's not about pandering either. It's about being an adult and discussing your feelings. If both people's feelings can't reconcile or come to agreement, then end the relationship in a mature way if the matter is important enough.

Re: Racist, homophobic, sexist comments -- I wouldn't be with a person who showed a tendency toward any of that conduct. But, if my partner suddenly started to behave that way, I would be upset. I would also use facts and logic (your words) to show them that racism, homophobia and sexism are wrong. I could carry the conversation easily without resorting to verbal abuse. If they insisted on behaving that way without change, it would be my choice whether or not to stay with them. I don't have to call them names just to break up.

There's nothing wrong with fighting. It's the way you argue that matters. State your facts, agree to disagree, spend time apart, split up, etc., but verbal abuse which question either party's sanity is never OK.

There are only four ways to settle any argument:
- Your way (if agreed upon)
- Their way (if agreed upon)
- A middleground (if agreed upon)
- A totally new way that you think of together

It doesn't need to be more complicated or demeaning than that.