Delayed reaction

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So, in October, I met a woman from Britain on dating site. We spoke for 2 weeks and everything was going smoothly. Then, 2 weeks later, I decided to cuss her out because I was mad at a waitress here in the US for not talking to me. Of course this had nothing to do with her, but that is how I roll sometimes. Surprisingly, she was super patient. She even spent over an hour giving me feedback about the waitress. Then, 2 days later, I yelled at her again. This time it was because I was behind on the grading. Yes she could tell that I was mad at something other htan her because she asked, and I told her. She said she understands how stressful it can be and, as a teacher, she has been there too. She wished me luck catching up and said she hopes I get some rest. Then an hour later she leaves me a skype message saying she won't date me because he "has an impression" I will "always" take things out on her. Well, if "she has an impression", as she put it, why not check with me if her impression is correct? So I sent her message after message trying to clarify that her impression is wrong and I can change. No she did not block me but she did something else instead: she wasn't logging into her skype account for two months which left me with the nagging feeling "if only she could just log in to read it".

Now I feel like she misled me in at least two ways. First, notice how I waited two weeks to throw my first tantrum and then only two days to throw the second one. Why? Well, because she was super patient with my first tantrum, which made me interpret it as if she will continue to be equally understanding. If she were to give me some kind of warning after the first tantrum, then I wouldn't have thrown the second one! And what is even more upsetting is that when I did throw the second one, she didn't tell me right away she is leaving. She told me an hour later Why would she lead me on to think everything was fine and end the conversation so smoothly, and then an hour later send me that other message. And then never log in to read my reply?!

Then, in Decempter, she got in touch with me again, telling me I came up in her prayers. I tried to persuade her to date me. At first she didn't want to because she is supposedly too old to hope to ever have a family. Which is quite ironic because she is 34 and I am 42. When I pointed it out to her she was saying that for men the old age is different than women. And I said "who cares wehther most men find you unattractive; I find you attractive".

Long story short, she finally agreed to give me another chance. But this time it was a lot quicker for her to walk away. Because you see, this time I was NOT ever yelling at her because of being upset at someone else. Yet it took her only a day to decide to go again, despite the fact that in October she was easy going for the entire two weeks (and who knows how much longer if I didn't decide to yell at her). In Decempter we chatted for two days, then she left till January. Then in January we chatted for another two days, and then she left again.

But the "dynamics" of her leaving in December/January was similar to the dynamics of her leaving in October. So in December she was upset that I questioned whether she really means that she is giving me another chance or not. But I questioned this in the beginning of the second chat, not the end. Yes she confronted me about it. But I smoothed it out by telling her I now believe her. And I thought it was smoothed out fine: we talked about other things for an hour, she was engaging, etc. Then the next day it just happened that she wasn't logging in. When I noticed she wasn't, I asked her about it. She said she is planning to cancel her skype account. What?! She didn't ever tell me she was gonna do it before I asked. When I questioned her, she said she doesn't like skype because of big brother watching her, she set it "just for me, stupid" yet I didn't appear greatful (due to what I said in the beginning of the chat) so she is canceling it.

Then what happened in January was that she came back again, and she said that she is willing to try again although she understands if I wouldn't want to due to all those absences. So her apologetic tone suggested -- in my mind -- she won't do it again. Yet two days later she did the exact thing she just apologized for. Now, in that message she said she wanted to set up regular time to skype because she thinks skype is better than emails since my emails tend to be really long that overwhelm her. And she said she wanted to set up specific time to skype. Now, our first January skype session lasted for 6 hours, that was my night her day. She repeatedly kept asking me if I need some sleep nd I was like "yes but I am so lonely". Then towards the end of skype session I asked her if she wants to have regular chats like she told me earlier. She said yes but they won't be for 6 hours. I said its fine if they are not 6 hours. BUt then she backed out of the idea of making them regular. And this time she found some other trick to back out of it. You see, her voice is relaxing in general, thats one of the things I like about her. So when I asked her why they can't be regular she said "well", but the "well" was said in such a relaxing voice that I just assumed everything was fine. If she were to write "well" in the email, then I surely would have bombarded her with messages. But because she said it out loud in such a relaxing voice, I didn't second guess it, until two days later. Then two days later I sent her a bunch of emails to which she didn't reply until few days afterwords. And few days afterwords she told me I "lost her 6 massive emails ago" telling me she has "no desire or energy to deal with it so she has to say good bye".

Now, if I go by what she wrote in her last email (and in fact in some of the previous ones too) the thing that put her off is that I am way too needy/demanding. But notice how I wasn't needy or demanding back in October? Thats because back in October she gave me all the attention I ever needed. As a matter of fact, she was sending me messages in the middle of the day, and I was the one trying to go far away from computers just so that I can focus on my studies. But then she suddenly and unexpectedly withdrew her attention. So this made me obsess about her. And then when she finally came back, she wasn't nearly as available as she used to be. So the less she is "there"/available, the more I obsess. If her concern is "massive emails", the whole entire issue could have been solved if she were to simply talk to me more. Back in October she did just fine talking to me more. So I have no idea why it would be any more difficult in December/January *if only* she were to let go of certain things.

Well I guess you might say that back in October the topics of conversation were less confrontational than they were in December/January. So she was fine talking for hours about religion, but not-so-fine talking about our interaction. But here is the thing. If she were to talk to me about religion -- or whatever topics she is "fine" about -- then I wouldn't be talking about our interaction. The whole entirel thing that causes me to talk about our interaction is her withdrawing of attention. So if she were to give me an attention, in whatever form she is comfortable with, then I wouldn't be sitting there dissecting who said what to whom. The fact that I didn't do so back in October is a clear illustration to this.

As a matter of fact, let me tell you something further. What happened back in October is that I took her for granted. That is why I threw those two tantrums to begin with. Since I took her for granted, I was instead worried about waitress (my first tantrum) or grading (my second tantrum). But then after she withdrew her attention, I was no longer taking her for granted. So waitress/grading was no longer my prime concern. Now my prime concern was her. Which means that I was not going to throw those kinds of tantrums. But what I *did* do instead was nag her for attention. And *that* is something I have never done in October. There was no reason to nag her for attention back in October since I had plenty of it. But then there was plenty of reason to nag her for attention in December/January since she withdrew it.

So actually what happened in December/January is the *opposite* to what happened in October. In October I took her for granted; in December/January I over-fixated on her. So if I can do those two opposite things, surely I can find a happy medium between them. If only she were to give me a chance. Yet the problem is she won't.

I guess part of the problem is that she doesn't see them as opposite. She sees them as more of the same. Since in all cases I ended up yelling at her. But on my end of the line, when I look at the reasons behind yelling, I do see them as opposite. Because in October I yelled at her because I took her for granted and in December/January I yelled at her because I was obsessed about her. It is just frustrating she doesn't see it.

And, back to the title of the thread. The one thing that she does which makes it a lot more difficult is delyaed reaction. Back in October, she didn't warn me after the first tantrum, which caused me to take her for granted even more. And then after the second tantrum she didn't leave right away but instead left an hour later, so I didn't have any opportunity to say anything in my defense (she stopped logging on). Then in December/January, again she never told me during our skype conversations she plans to end it. Both in December and in January I learned about it few days later. Which I find to be really frustrating. The fact that in December it was something I said in the beginning of the chat rather than the end -- yet still learned about it only after the chat has ended -- further stresses this point.

Now, one thing she told me about when we did talk is that I am not the only one she does it to. She said there were times when she withdrew from all her friends, which happens when she goes through difficult phase in her life. In fact she said that when she withdrew from me in October that was one of those times -- she went through some difficult things that had nothing to do with me -- yet it just happened to be exactly after I cussed her out and her October message also said my yelling was why. But then I can also say that she is not the only person who did this to me. Plenty of women ghost me without warning. Not in the specific way she did, but the idea is similar. So I guess if its not just me and its not just her, then it would be two messed up people meeting each other?

But in any case, what do you think about the above dynamics of interaction? I mean not the fact that she leaves, but how she manages to do it in such a seemless manner, so that I only realize she left hours or days after she has, and then have no opportunity to defend myself. When she never blocks me, but stops logging into skype. Which is also along similar lines. And also the fact that she says its me being obsessive while overlooking the fact that I never had to obsess back in October so its not me but my reaction to her behavior.

Do you think I lost her trust with October tantrum? Or do you think I lost her respect by showing her that I would chase after her if she withdraws?

Why do you do these sorts of things?

Why did you curse out that woman who had nothing to do with what the waitress did?

Just....Why????

You make yourself seem crazy.

There are times when you have to take a good, honest look at yourself (if you're not just writing this stuff to entertain us, somehow).

Just like me.....I'm not perfect. I have to take a good look at myself sometimes. I still do stupid things.

A very wise man told me, just before I got married, to never show my anger at my husband. He knew me well and could see that if I behaved sort of like you described, I would ruin the relationship.

You can’t take your anger out on someone else and get loved in return. It’s like striking someone with words, but these words are as hurtful as physical blows (although not physically dangerous.)

I’d spent a lifetime flaunting my anger at previous husbands. I finally learned to deal with anger in another manner.

I’m not saying you don’t have a right to be angry. It’s just that anger makes your life worse, not better. Or at least that is what I have found.

I still struggle with anger. But my life is better when I can transform it.

You lost her trust with your October tantrums (plural).

And how the lack of trust would explain such secretive behavior when I don't even know what is coming until few days later?

Is it because the word "trust" should be taken literally, as in she doesn't believe I would tell her the truth if she talks to me openly. So in order to prevent me from deceiving her she has to avoid telling me what the deal is?

Or is it a trust in a sense of giving me a benefit of the doubt when I make faux pas? As in, due to Asperger I make faux passes on daily basis, but before my two tantrums she knew they were faux passes while after the tantrums she misinterpreted as if they were done on purpose?

Or is it a trust as in trust I won’t hurt her if she gets too close. So after my tantrums she doesn’t want to let herself get too close. Yet she still does — and then she pulls back away?

I think she may have wanted to give you second and third chances, but every time you yelled at her or clung to her, it diminished her desire for you a little bit more each time, until the bond was so weak it broke.

But in December and January I wasn’t doing it on purpose. I only did it on purpose those two times in October. So after my doing it twice on purpose she became less forgiving about things done by accident.

What you did on October-----was quite enough.

I wouldn't have put up with that crap from any woman.

1) Why didn’t she give me any warning, back in October, after my first tantrum. I mean, if she did, I wouldn’t have thrown the second one. I realize it’s not her job, but still: why did she pretend like everything was fine when it wasn’t?

2) Are you saying that her coming back later and then leaving again was just a pretend play to get me off her back? As in, her mind was made up not to come back, but I pressured her to come back, so she did, and then she just looked for excuses to get back out?

3) Why is it all three times she left she did it with a delay? In October she told me she was leaving an hour after the chat was over. In December she told me the next day. In January few days later?

Also look at the dynamics. Before the two tantrums everything was so smooth and effortless. Then two months after the tantrums it was such a rollercoaster. If you believe she still wanted to give me a chance, can you explain such a change in her attitude?

Having a tantrum like that and taking anger out on people who don't deserve it is not acceptable. It seems like you're brushing it off. That's not just "how you roll sometimes". You need to fix this or your dating life won't go well.

Take accountability for yourself. You can't control other people's behavior; you can only control your own. You see how you're blameshifting this from yourself onto her? Most of your post is about what she could be doing rather than what you could be doing.

So not only did you have a tantrum, but now you're shifting accountability too. That's 2 red flags right there. It's not on her to give you more chances. It's on you to not engage in sh***y behavior.

You're not ready to date at this moment. You need take a good hard look at yourself. Remove anything toxic, distracting or needlessly stressful out of your life. Change your daily habits. Find a therapist, or if you have one, be honest with them about this. Or anything to help with anger management. Then, in a few months, come back fresh.

Try to put yourself in her shoes. You will then see the multiple errors of your ways.

It's not her job to manage your anger. You're a grown adult.

You shouldn't be having tantrums like that at all, regardless of whether she "gives you a warning". You should know from the get-go that behavior is unacceptable.

You thought this was acceptable just because you were under the impression that she would tolerate it?

You're trying to justify a 2nd tantrum on the basis that she didn't do. There shouldn't be a 2nd tantrum regardless. There shouldn't be a 1st tantrum regardless.

Every so often, on here, there's a post where someone is dealing with a toxic person. But in this post, you are the toxic person and in denial about that.

But you don't have to continue to be like this; you can change if you gain some self-awareness.

Just to clarify, I never said I did everything right. I agree that taking out my frustration with one person on a completely different person is wrong. But then I also believe that the way she handled it was wrong too. I think both of us were wrong.

This means that there are two separate topics of conversation: what can I do not to act this way in the future, and why is it she reacted the way that she did. In this particular thread I was focused on the latter. But that doesn't invalidate the former. Both are valid questions to ask.

The fact that my behavior was wrong doesn't automatically explain the reason why she reacted in this specific way. Hence I am asking why did she.

The other thing to point out is that I *did* apologize to her for the October thing, repeatedly. Now, my "apologies" might have been invalidated by the fact that they were in the context of trying to persuade her to get back together, and I was also quite demanding about it. But its still true I made those apologies and said that I was wrong in October. In fact I kept telling her "since it is so obvous to me as to how I was wrong, thats why I am sure I won't do it again, thats why you should give me another chance". No she didn't responded to that part at all. She ust deflected it into talking about her own issues she was struggling with.

Also, the afore-described apologies for October tantrum were made right after that tantrum, yet she didn't log into skype for 2 months and didn't read them till December (which is one frustrating part). Then, in December, when she read them, I apologized for October some more. So my December apologies for October were *BEFORE* the December messup. The timing was like this:

December Day 1: I convince her to give me a second chance. That is when I send her the other set of apologies for October.

December Day 2: I accuse her for not being truly interested in the beginning of the chat, but then when she confronts me on this I take it back and say I now believe her. The rest of our chat goes smoothly

December Day 3: I ask her why I didn't see her on skype and she tells me that she takes away skype account due to big brother things. And then mentions my lack of appreciation in the beginning of December Day 2 as the reason. I am surprised why she is upset about what happened in the beginning of Day 2 if the rest of Day 2 went so smoothly.

So the October thing was taken care of on December Day 1. Thats why I thought that on December Day 2 it was no longer relevant, which would mean that in January it would be even less relevant.

Or are you saying that my apologies on Day 1 didn't take care of October, and she still had October in the back of her mind, despite them?

Often it takes people some time to process exactly how they feel about something, and to make a decision about it. This isn't deception, just a delayed reaction.

You didn't say whether she's autistic, but you should be aware that autistic people, in particular, often have difficulty knowing exactly how they feel about something in the moment, and need time to process their feelings. NT's may need this too, though to a lesser extent.


That was premature.

Instead of asking for a date immediately, you should have just engaged in some friendly conversation and maybe told her that you realize you need to work on anger management, and perhaps told her about some proactive steps you intended to take toward that end. You should have waited with asking for another date until at least three or four friendly text-based conversations later, and only after she had had an opportunity to see some evidence that you were, in fact, making progress on anger management.

As for the rest of your story, my guess is that her underlying reason for rejecting you may be that she felt pressured by you, and that you seemed desperate. Had you held off on asking her for another date, in the first place, you might not have seemed so desperate.

First of all, she is not autistic. She did, however, repeatedly say she is INFJ and blamed her behavior for that. I am not that familiar with personality types so I can't agree or disagree with what she said.

In my case I can be either INFP or INTP, depending on how I read the questions. Definitely one or the other though.

As a side note, I disagree that autistics don't know how they feel. Because I always do. However, my actions often don't reflect what I feel because I have hard time of fitting them into social context. And thats why others assume I don't know what I feel. But I do. I just don't know how to act on it.

And this is not executive disfunction either. I know perfectly well how to go to the store, cook food etc. I just don't know whether a girl asking me something expects me to continue a conversation and for how long. I know I want to continue it, I don't konw whether she wants to.

In other words,

a) I know how I feel -- both socially and otherwise

b) I have normal executive function when social interactions aren't involved

c) It is only the idea of how accommodate my wishes socially that I am confused about



Here is the thing though. If I tell her I work on anger management, then the logical conclusion is that she should give me another chance. So if I spend few days saying the former without saying the later, this looks like elephant in the room that nobody can name, and it is uncomfortable. It begs the question: if I just said I am working on my anger yet dating didn't come up, is she not believing me or what?

Now I agree with you that *in general* asking a woman to date on day 1 is a really bad idea, even if no bad history ever happened. But this situation is different. In this situation we did have history. And history implies that "if I didn't do X, we would have been doing Y". So that is why saying "I am working on not doing X" begs the question "why aren't we doing Y".

If we weren't considering dating before, I wouldn't have brought it up. And as a matter of fact we weren't official before, we were only working towards it. Thats why I didn't ask her to be official then either. I also asked her to only work for it. In other words what I asked is to get me to the exact situation that was there before the tantrum, no more no less.

As a matter of fact, after an hour of my trying to convince her, she finally said "alright, I am willing to give you a second chance, how do you want us to proceed?" And that is exactly what I answered, I told her "I want you to do the exact thing you would have done if I didn't throw those two tantrums" and left it up to her to answer the question what would she have done. And then her response to that was to set up skype meetings.

Side note: Since you phrased it as "go on a date", I need to clarify that we couldn't "physically" go on a date since she is in England and I am in the USA. As a matter of fact this was one of the reasons not to date that she kept brining up. But the question is: how come this reason started to play bigger role after my tantrums than before? Before tantrums, yes, she also mentioned it in passing. But then she changed her mind, and was talking about possible future relationship. But then, in December/January she started to bring up distance a lot more often and even though she still reluctantly considered future relationships, the distance somehow became a lot more discouraging than it used to be.



The confusing part about it is that, when she left after the second chat in December, she accused me of lack of appreciation. So how can I be both desperate and lack appreciation at the same time? Being desperate means that I really want something. Lack of appreciation means that I don't care. So how can I really want something and not care at the same time? Thats contradiction in terms.

I totally get that hot water is unpleasant and cold water is unpleasant. But how can you say it is boiling hot and freezing cold at the same time? You can't. Yet that is *exactly* what a lot of girls are saying about me. Not just her, but a lot of other girls too.

The girl of this thread BOTH accused me of lack of appreciation AND she accused me of being too pushy too.

Similarly the other girl 2 years ago ALSO accused me of lack of appreciation AND of being too pushy.

And the other girl, 3 years ago, ALSO accused me of lack of appreciation AND being too pushy.

How can they not see the obvious contradiction here?!