Physical attractiveness — a rant

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For some reason, physical attractiveness is a taboo subject when discussing romance. People are expected to say they don't care about looks, but it simply isn't true.

When people post on L&D it's usually somewhat obvious whether they are attractive to others. Those who are, male or female, will report having experience with relationships whereas others have had none, however nobody really discusses why. But if you read these posts then you probably have an idea who falls into which category.

When I was High School age, I didn't think I was attractive, in fact some people told me I was ugly. However, in retrospect I can tell that a lot of girls and women did consider me attractive. When I was "dating", beginning with my first girlfriend the summer before my 21st birthday, up until getting married, I didn't think that much about female attractiveness. There were certain women that didn't attract me, but I would say that I found most women my age attractive enough to have sex with if they were willing. My "standards" actually rose as I became old enough to think seriously in terms of marriage. I should probably be ashamed to confess that I believed my wife wouldn't "lose her looks" with age which is one reason I was so willing to marry her. I believe a lot of people think this way, but on a site like this, we hesitate to admit it because we are all expected to support each other.

As regards love and dating though, a few aspects must be considered.

As a general rule, people shouldn't try to go "out of their league", at least in terms of pursuing others.

In the "cishet" world, men and women have different points of view. I think women care less about conventional male attractiveness however they have their own "standards" for what attracts them. A conventionally attractive woman can be attracted to a man who might be thought to have an ugly face, however it's not really that simple. Something about that man attracts her and most men probably don't have whatever that is.

A man can find a woman attractive enough to have sex with but might be less likely to commit long-term if he thinks he can "do better". In some cases, the guy might not even be conscious of this thought process. If he doesn't find sex partners all that often, he'll go with the next willing partner he finds. However that partner may eventually come to believe she's basically being used for sex. A few women might not care all that strongly but most do, from what I can tell.

Women who consider themselves unattractive often have few if any sex partners, not because nobody approaches them, but because they may assume anybody who does just wants to use them for sex. That may often be true, but not necessarily always. This is especially true of the woman thinks she's "too fat". Many men aren't so particular about body weight but some women seem determined to think they won't be valued by high-quality men unless they're thin. The fact is though, many of us, male or female, may never achieve our romantic goals if we aren't willing to risk getting hurt on occasion, much like other life endeavors.

One other point I'll make is that, although men do, in general, care more about "conventional attractiveness", a woman can make herself more attractive to a man. By this, I mean specifically in terms of sex, as if a man really has a good time with a certain woman sexually, he will want to be with her even if he didn't think her especially attractive when he first met her.

We are all unique individuals who like different things. I don’t care about looks. It’s true. I care about personality and having things in common with someone. I care about stuff like intelligence, humor, and empathy.

If someone says that they don’t experience physical attraction and, thus, don’t care about looks, they might be demisexual. I’ve seen people on here argue over that because it’s hard for some members to understand something if they haven’t experienced it themselves.

It’s not cool when people are dismissive of someone’s sexual identity (which is against the site’s rules) or experience. We like what we like. There’s nothing wrong with that.

I’m not sure why you would want to rant about others‘ stated preferences. I think many (but not all) members find looks less important than you are suggesting. There are a few reasons for this, like - having unconventional preferences/finding unconventional people attractive, needing someone who "gets" them above all else because most people don't, knowing that looks fade but character qualities tend to be permanent, and believing that personality is more important than looks.
None of the things you mentioned are things that I would consider, so “must” is a strong word.
What a great message for the women on this forum, especially considering the fact that many of us have experienced sexual violence or exploitation.

Far better advice: if you think that you need to compensate with sexual performance because a man might find you unattractive, finding a different man would be a fantastic idea.

What was the point of this post?

I think men tend to be pickier about weight if they care more about sex. There's LOTS of different types of porn out there but there's a very small amount of fat women in porn unless they have huge boobs or they're catering to the fat fetish. That said, lots of guys probably don't care about weight as much after the relationship gets more serious. Lots of the older women in my family are fat & they were a lot thinner before they got marred. The women were good cooks & the women & their husbands tended to gain weight after getting married & the women gained a lot more weight after having kids.

I'm pretty sure female porn talent tends to be bigger than say Hollywood actresses, unless you're specifically looking for petite or anorexic fetish models.

Not necessarily fat, but there's more acceptance of thicker frames and curvier frames compared to Hollywood, or many other categories of modelling.

All the more reason you just won the internet. ^

My jaw hit the floor with that last statement from the OP.

Undesirable women can make themselves attractive by sleeping with men who dislike them?
Did I really just read that?
They should allow themselves to be used, to earn a temporary stamp of patriarchal approval?
They should treat these men right as a type of "thank you for hating me?"

Remind me why this makes sense, Max.





You think all dating experience means we were attractive? Have you read the groomer thread? The groomer was one sorry looking chap and he managed to get his fair share of partners, most of whom he never saw in pictures or real life. What drew these women to him if he was short and fat and had a face only a mother could love? (Rumour has it, his didn't.) We liked that person because that person deceived us and lied to us. Looks don't matter when you're sold a pack of lies by a sociopath who tells you exactly what you want to hear. That's one way people get dating experience.

Another way people get dating experience is by being nice, sincere, caring people and having things in common. There's an emphasis in some threads on people hooking up with strangers based on insatiable physical lust but this is the real world. Most people hook up or enter relationships because they care about each other, whether they're demisexual or not. Sure, most of us won't be attracted to someone who is repulsively or hideously ugly for whatever reason, regardless of their personality, but that's quite uncommon for a person to look that bad. Most people are average and that's life. People also like different things, so there's no standard of what "attractive" even means.

I was a nice enough looking young woman. I have some insecurities and I was autistic af. I thought my husband found me attractive but it turned out he didn't care about my looks at all. He wanted my trust fund which became my house. My second boyfriend wanted a place to live because he was homeless. My third one found me attractive but was diddling men on the side, and wouldn't touch my body because he was gay. He liked my personality and thought he could force himself to like women but it didn't work. Years later after my first stroke he started telling me I was ugly and making fun of my face and even my body. As for MR, he gave me his number based on a combination of factors. He thought I was pretty but more importantly he loved talking to me. He liked that I was witty yet shy and humble. That's what's keeping us holding on despite some hard times, not my looks.

My point about this, if I may feel free to clarify, is women who aren't thin but are still attractive in fact very attractive to most men, but those women have been told they aren't thin enough and so think any guy who shows an interest in them is just looking for a casual hook-up although the guy could easily be head-over-heels smitten. It's my impression that a lot of this has been exacerbated by social media. Below I have put a link to a photo of Britney Spears (I am just putting the link because she's in a bikini and some may not want to look) and will make the claim that many women, if they weren't in fact Britney Spears, would insist they were fat if they had this BMI.

https://www.lifeandstylemag.com/wp-cont ... .29-PM.png

Having tried this strategy, it doesn't really work in the long-term.

^^ They'd think they were fat if they had what BMI? Britney Spears's? What woman would think that that's fat? How do you think this will make women who are actually overweight feel?

Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 23 Jul 2023, 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Why not?

I think the problem came along long before social media, but I agree that broadly, the image that women are told is what men desire isn't actually the image that men desire.

Ironically, I think men fall into that trap too where they seem to pick a partner based on them being conventionally attractive, even when that guy's eyes always wander to women of a different appearance.

Being able to get someone off really well is appreciated, but in the long-term it's rarely someone's highest priority from a partner.

It's a great way to keep someone really interested in the short or medium term, but eventually they'll start looking for someone who's more suitable for their long-term plans.

Ohhh...

I thought you meant that finding someone more suitable didn't work for you.

I've known women who complained they were fat when they had that amount of chub.

I think no matter the angle we're approaching from, we can agree that's well within the range of appealing figures. If someone looks in the mirror and sees that tummy, they're doing good and ought not to feel insecure about their appearance.

Unfortunately lots of people who are quite nice looking are convinced they're ugly.

No, sadly young me focused on the wrong things and that likely contributes to why my relationship history looks the way it does.

^^ I agree and I've been there. It just seems like a narrow view of attractiveness and women in bikinis are often promoted on WP, and it's not helpful for the people who are legitimately overweight and feel unattractive because of it. Most women do not look like Britney Spears in a bikini.

Is that Britney Spears in the picture? I'm face blind so I don't recognise her. Is it a recent picture?