Guilt

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I'm wondering if anyone with CPTSD has been in a relationship with another CPTSD sufferer.
Complex Trauma causes people to feel immense guilt and shame whether it's warranted or not.

What happens if something goes wrong in a relationship, and both people blame themselves?

My partner can't forgive himself for something that happened in 2021.
He blames himself so much he can't get past the guilt and shame.

In contrast I blame myself for it, whether I should or not.
It's my default setting.
I'm able to forgive him but I can't forgive me.

We did nearly a year of couples' counselling.
We got to a point where we agreed no one was to blame.
He actually insists he's to blame, but he'll accept this. ^

He's hit a wall of self-blaming again.
It's causing him incredible stress and depression.

We both keep spiralling with guilt and shame against ourselves.
We don't blame each other at all.
I'd give anything to help him find peace.
He'd give anything to make me not blame myself.

I assume this is totally normal for couples with CPTSD x 2.
I can't find any literature on it, so I thought I'd ask here.

Any suggestions?

He's on a new med but it makes his anxiety worse.
So far they're calling it an acute Anxiety Disorder + CPTSD + grief.

He's on a waitlist for further assessment to see what's going on.
It's like a major mental health breakdown or midlife crisis.

I wish I had some helpful things to say. I've been in relationships with people who have ptsd... I think on one of my ex's in particular. She and I were together off and on for about 10 years and she was with me when I was doing my trauma work. She and I both self blamed to a point, but we were also really reactionary and prone to destructive behaviors. I don't know that anything I could mention here would be relevant or helpful to your situation as keeping ourselves in check and not doing stupid/crazy stuff was the highest priority for her and me. Once she and I could get stable enough to talk, we could start problem solving. Just getting there was the hard part and nothing we could help the other with. We needed to do that alone.

Sorry you have this going on. It sucks when the past has a hold on the present. I hope you can both find ways to be good to yourselves while pulling through this.

Thank you.

This is what happened, essentially. He was struck with sudden, debilitating toxic shame this spring. We tried to work through it but had to admit we only had enough spoons to help ourselves rather than each other. He didn't want to add another stressor on my plate by having me witness what he's going through, because he knows I'm already at maximum overdrive with my own trauma.

He's never put himself first in his whole life. For three years he put all his effort into my trauma and didn't tell me how bad his was. I think it's a positive step for him to focus on his, even though I'm really worried for him.

We still see each other sometimes and even ... hook up. We still love each other. When he blames himself my automatic instinct is to say it's not his fault, it's mine. He doesn't want me to think that way so he says it's his fault, not mine. It's a vicious circle.

Ozzy and Harriet we are.

It wasn't like this until April when he had a bit of a breakdown from an accumulation of life stressors. He'd been dx Acute PTSD before, whereas I was always CPTSD. The more he's sharing about his trauma I think it's actually CPTSD and that explains all the guilt and shame he's feeling. He's been a whipping boy all his life, and always tried to be everyone's saviour instead of his own. That finally caught up with him.

I'm really sorry to hear about all you went through as well. Trauma really is a bitchhh. We don't have any reactionary or destructive behaviours but I do worry about him self-harming in his bad moments. It must have been awful to care about your partner but also be prone to impulsivity. Can I ask, did you ever talk again after going it alone? Do you know how she is now, or is it best that you don't make contact at all?



Here's some blurbs that might give some context.

I agree, it does seem like a positive for him to put some focus on his own traumas. Not only positive, but ultimately healthy. I imagine you both will see benefits from that in the long run if he can get some additional help here. No one can keep putting others first and ignoring their own needs forever. It catches up to you eventually.

Hopefully the wait isn't too long for the assessment. And fingers crossed they do get his med situation straightened out sooner than later. I'm curious, is he prone to self harming? Does he have safety plans in place? Is he willing to reach out to you or anyone if he does feel that kind of urge? I'm not sure if that kinda thing is boundary pushing to him or not. Regardless, I'm glad he has been talking to you about this stuff. I imagine that means a lot to him to have someone he feels comfortable enough with, trusts enough, to begin to open up.

My ex and I did make contact after going it alone. Those times were generally just us needing to get right in our own heads so we could be functional in a relationship with the other. Sometimes we'd touch base and keep in contact just to let the other know, hey, I'm still here, still care, no pressure, no rush, stuff like that. Other times we'd just flip into friends only mode depending on the issue at hand and carry on minus the physical aspects of our relationship. I always knew she was still there even when she technically wasn't and vise versa. Pauses like those were part of our norm, I suppose.

Best idea of how she is now is that she's still strung out. That's why I broke up with her...her drug use was out of control and I couldn't cope with it anymore. Last I heard she was wasted all day every day and off all her meds to. Her mom ended up raising her kids. It sucks.

Hope this made sense. I'm feeling mildly scatterbrained today.

Some of his behaviors sound like codependency to me, especially the taking responsibility for others but neglecting himself parts. I think it's possible he has codependency in addition to CPTSD or PTSD. Counseling for codependency might would be helpful for him so he could learn to start taking care of his own needs & having healthier boundaries with others so he won't tolerate a lot of abuse.

I was diagnosed with codependency(along with lots of other things) after my 1st relationship ended. Emily had some issues & I felt it was my duty to be protective. I was obsessed with her & trying to help. I overly focused on her at the expense of majorly neglecting my own needs & health. The stress kept building up till I had a mental breakdown & started majorly lashing out at her. I blamed her when I should have been blaming myself because I chose to put myself in that position.

I worked on myself alot since then & I doubt I'd still fit the codependency term. My current relationship is very interdependent & I do feel guilty for not being more independent & not being able to help her better. However I also realize that there is only so much I can realistically do & that there are times I need to assert myself more, set some boundaries, & try to relax & destress.

Cass probably has CPTSD & she has a codependent relationship with a couple family members. She can get so stressed out from dealing with family & trying to be there for them that she runs out of spoons & can shutdown for days. I try my best to be supportive but sometimes when she's in a bad mood everything I do or not do will be interpreted in a negative way. I sometimes feel like I'm walking blindfolded through a minefield. During those times I ask her if there's something she's like me to do & if she tells me something that I can realistically do at that moment I'd do it. If she doesn't give me an answer I'd take a couple random guesses about what to do & then go do my own thing instead of getting more frustrated & taking it out on her. Very luckily she's starting to realize that she can only do so much for her family & that she needs to take some time for herself & she's slowly trying to set firmer boundaries.

As for as counseling goes, couples counseling has been suggested to me & Cass by our GP docs, her psychiatrist, & a counselor she saw for a couple years; they all thought we were a sweet cute couple that should not break up. Cass had seen a couple counselors for a while at different points in her life & they did not really understand her issues. Cass has done lots of research on numerous psychology things(read some psychology textbooks & lots of various self-help books, as well as researching various things online) & she seems to understand herself & issues a lot better than professionals do. I tried counseling briefly aLONG time ago & the guy seemed to have my causes & effects mixed up. I've had alot more success by posting about things online a lot & researching psych meds. We both think a couple's counselor would not understand our issues & problems. Plus Cass is worried that she doesn't have the spoons to handle counseling. When she has to go out & do something it kinda ruins her whole day & she kinda needs the day before off to psych herself up & day after off so she can recover so an hour of counseling will cost her 3 days. Me & Cass understand each other better than anybody else has.

My advice for whatever it's worth would be to try applying what you'd like from him to yourself. Try to set an example of what you'd want him to do. You want him to focus on taking care of himself so focus on taking care of yourself. Remain friends for now but try to make sure there's some healthy boundaries in place.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. It's been three months so far, with ups and downs. The first month, we barely spoke at all because he wanted to shut down from burnout. Since then he's taken steps to have a full physical exam, start meds, start back in individual therapy with a bereavement psychologist, and get on a waitlist for a more thorough mental health screening. I generally let him make contact when he's up for it. I've barely told him anything about my life because I don't want him getting emotionally invested and deflecting his attention to my stuff instead of his own.






It can take three years to see a psychiatrist here, but he has some connections because of his career as a counsellor. Right now they're looking at September. He has a psychologist in the meantime but psychiatry will be able to change his meds if needed. They're going to screen for ADHD (stimulant meds) as well as Borderline or anything that would require antipsychotics, as opposed to SSRI. There's no way he's Borderline but it's part of the standard workup. The other option will be medical marijuana, although he smokes now and doesn't find it helps.

I hope he'll throw in the towel and quit Wellbutrin before then because it's making him a nervous wreck imo. He thinks the feeling is just his stress coming to the surface to be processed but I'm pretty sure it's the meds. Pre-meds he was more depressed. Now he's a nervous wreck.

Remeron was a disaster when he tried that, and there are a bunch of others he's scared to try because of the sexual side effects. Wellbutrin has the fewest SSE supposedly, but also the greatest risk of self-harm. That's why I've been so worried. No he's never self-harmed but he's talked about it quite seriously, recently. His brother and I are keeping a close watch in that regard. His brother called me once about three weeks ago to say he was having a really rough day so I went and stayed with him until he talked it through. I'll be on standby as long as it takes. It's just awkward bc I'm trying not to contact him much, and let him reach out instead. He needs a lot of time alone to work through this stuff, or even just to sleep.





That sounds like a really healthy way to approach things, so thanks for your input. We change modes a lot too. Currently we're defined as Us. We are ... us. We don't need labels like "boyfriend / girlfriend" right now because it's too much pressure and connotes an obligation to help each other when he needs to help himself. He hates the term FWB too, and refuses to use it. He thinks it cheapens what we have and sounds disrespectful to me. "Friends" goes without saying. We are us, and I'm OK with that. It's just really hard during the droughts when we don't talk much because he's resting.




Oh wow. That would be a game changer if drugs were involved. I'm really glad you knew your limits when things started to be out of control like that. It must be even worse for her kids. Your post made perfect sense. It's just taken me a couple days to get back into the headspace of thinking about it.

I hope you're feeling better than yesterday and you'll have a good weekend.

Thanks again flea.

I was on the highest dose of Wellbutrin for a while(450mg) & I was more irritable so my dose got lowered to 300mg & the the antipsychotic Seroquel was added which is working alot better for me along with being on Buspar for anxiety & Gabapentin for OCD. I would be concerned about him trying stimulant meds because Wellbutrin is kinda like a milder stimulant & anxiety & irritability are fairly common side-effects of stimulant meds. I never actually tried stimulant meds thou. A doc suggested I try one a while back for binge-eating & I asked to try Naltrexone instead because I was concerned about irritability & anxiety. My doc thought that was reasonable but I could still try the stimulant if I want to. There's a couple non-stimulant meds for ADHD like Strattera, Clonidine, & Guanfacine. The latter two lower blood-pressure & can potentially help anxiety. The only one of those I tried was Strattera & I thought it might of made it harder for me to focus but that was over 15 years ago & I was working alot at the time & was on a few other psych meds. I very briefly tried Remeron for a tremor disorder instead of depression thou & all I did was sleep & eat. I'd wake up, eat, go back to bed an hour or so later, sleep for a couple hours, & then the cycle would repeat. That med cost me my last job because I was fired after being out two weeks due to company policy.

Nick,

I have a lot to say but just haven't had time to think it though. I appreciate your thoughtful replies so much. I'll try to write back to you later today.

{{{ nick }}}

Awesome. I'm glad he's taking those steps. I know it's not the easiest of things to do when you're struggling like that.
Also, yay he knows some people and can get in that soon. Wait times for mental health issues are awful. I wish it was sooner for him, but months are better than years.

Med rollercoasters are no fun. But yeah, it could be worth it to try to find a different one if this one is having that kind of impact on him. I can appreciate his concerns over side effects, but really, there's no way to know if and how those things will impact you until you're on them. Some people don't ever have the sse crap. I know I'm not saying anything you don't already know. Just thinking it might not hurt to say it anyhow.

I'm glad he has hasn't acted on any self harm yet and that he's got support in place when those thoughts come up. I can imagine it would be weird though for you. That whole balance between being there and giving space has got to be tough... I hope you're finding things to do for self care right now.

The way my ex and I did that might have been healthy, but it was awful when it was happening. I hated the wait for things to be okay. It was like I was going crazy for a bit until it normalized or got resolved. Liminal space is the worst.

Yeah, labels can be helpful, but sometimes they only add unnecessary things into the mix. I know it's got to be really hard right now, but it sounds like you two are rolling with this to the best of your abilities and doing right things along the way. I wish I had a lot of good things to say, best I got is to wish you both well in this. Relationship issues are so damn hard.

I'm glad you appreciate it. Sometimes on WP I feel like I'm talking to myself or others might take what I say the wrong way but that may just be the nature of our autism & other issues. I def understand about needing time to think things over. I really wish I had better advice for you. I'm sure it's extremely difficult for you to show him that your there for him but you are also so limited with what you can do ATM.

Do you mean he was codependent to me, or to everyone in his life? The reason I haven't written sooner is that I'm trying to understand what codependency even is. My first instinct the other day was to say that's not him at all, not in our relationship and not throughout the rest of his life. I did some google searches and he does meet a few of the criteria but I think it's been done more out of necessity than desire. He had a toxic childhood in some ways because of an abusive dad who left them. He's a middle child of three boys and he raised his older and younger brothers because his mother had a breakdown and they moved across the country with him having to parent them all. I shouldn't be saying all this but I'm thinking out loud. He's never had low self-esteem or derived his sense of purpose through other people. I guess when he met me it was a different story. I didn't ask for or expect his help with anything. I'm stubbornly independent. It's more like I rambled about my issues than I actually needed him to do anything. My issues kept getting in the way of our time. Not just Covid and lockdowns but my family responsibilities as a single mother and caregiver to my mum and brother. Then there's all my trauma. I didn't need him to help me with trauma but of course it had to be accommodated, just like his did. He had Acute PTSD from an experience long before I met him, plus he was widowed and dealing with grief.

He's definitely an assertive personality and doesn't have issues with setting boundaries or speaking up. He's a take-charge type of person and I love that about him because I have difficulty making decisions on my own.





I love the way you're able to explain your relationship and the psychology of your needs. MR's wife and both parents are all deceased and his brothers are independent. He had a long and successful career and was able to retire when his wife died. I met him a few years after that but he hadn't dated anyone else in the interim. Our problem occurred in 2021 when he made a poor decision which really hurt our relationship. That's what he can't get past. Somehow it's triggered all the pent-up exhaustion from the rest of his life even though I'm not sure he's been codependent with anyone. It's more of a trauma reaction, as far as I know. I'm still mulling over what you've said though.





You sound like a really caring guy. Cass is lucky to have met you. I think it's different for me because we never lived together or needed to support each other financially, or in a practical sense.










This is really sweet advice. I've always taken care of myself though, apart from him watching all the crap I go through day to day. I never expected him to solve anything and lots of times I didn't even tell him how bad things were.

I don't think boundaries are the issue but of course I agree they're still important. It's hard for me to explain what's going on and I'm sure I'm talking in circles to an extent. Basically, he was always a successful person with good self-esteem and an independent, assertive personality. He'd carried a lot of responsibility all his life and also had PTSD + grief. Everything was OK until 2021 when he made a mistake. We did therapy for a year and grew stronger from that. We had no hard feelings and we were doing great. Suddenly he was struck with a crisis of conscience or a breakdown in April and he's been in a guilt / shame cycle ever since. Suddenly his whole life caused him trauma but mostly the part about us from 2021. Suddenly all the therapy went out the window and he couldn't deal with any of it. He doesn't want to drag me through this so that's where we are today.

I've taken Seroquel, Risperidone and Buspar but I don't think he ever tried any of them. I'd forgotten about Buspar. I actually have tons of it upstairs. Hmmm. I agree the Wellbutrin has to go, or something needs to be added, or something has to change!

Now I've quit all my SSRIs (Zoloft and Trintellix, in the past), and I'm only on Vyvanse as well as Guanfacine (Intuniv) for ADHD. I think Guanfacine is great stuff. He can't get it unless he's dx with ADHD though. That can't be until September at the earliest. I don't think he's ADHD unfortunately. Guanfacine does help BP so it's been good for me because I was already on three regular BP meds for my strokes, but they weren't helping and my BP was still off the charts. My doctor thought I was ready for a heart attack back in May when I started the Guanfacine and it seems to do the trick. I take it at bedtime and Vyvanse in the day to wake up.

Meds are sooo confusing. I'm thinking of recommending that he try Omega 3s and NAC for his anxiety, combined with the Wellbutrin, but I hope he'll agree to try tapering off it too. I don't think he can see how bad he is on it. He's only been on it about a month and I thought April and May were bad (unmedicated), but this seems to be worse now that he's on it.

My issue is that he's blaming himself. In reality he does need to blame himself for 2021, I think, to get through this and get it out of his system. The more I rescue him and find reasons why it's my fault, the more he tries to blame himself.

This is us:

"It's my fault!"

"No, it's my fault!"

"I wrecked everything!"

"No, I wrecked everything!"

It should be funny, but unfortunately it's not. Also remember that it's not ALL about me. His mind is trying to blame him for everything that's ever gone wrong in his life.

It's so hard to see. I think it's very close to a nervous breakdown. It's just that we have no idea what triggered it all to come tumbling down so suddenly in April.