Caught in a Narcassist's Web of Manipulation: Help!

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I think for the fact that we put men on sewer pipe repair, water treatment, construction, and a lot of the more punishing infrastructural load-bearing tasks men will probably always be treated different and will have to have a slightly different code of conduct for being pressure-treated for being 'up to the task'.

I had a discussion I posted in the Adult Autism Issues folder where it's Chris Williamson having a 90 minute interview with a guy named Connor Beaton (title was 'Does The World Actually Want Vulnerable Men?') and it sounds like we're primed for a change in social contract to really start looking at male social norms to figure out which ones are actually preparatory for professional excellence and which ones are purely self-defeating and weeding out more of the later since it's just costs (born by society when damaged men are less productive) accruing for little good reason than because certain ways of doing things have been carried forward.

We're playing with AI now, we'll be in a place where synthetic biology can be done in anyone's basement (Rob Reid beats that drum a lot) - it won't be a good time for people to be living in sort of semi-subconscious fever dream about what men and women are or what social contract looks like and then say anyone talking seriously and overtly about it immolates their social status for doing so.

I had to look up what PUA meant. Relationships seem so complicated. I’m not sure they are worth the effort most of the time. It’s hard enough for us to understand what is going on with people in general, without throwing in thoughts that what they actually want is disguised under layers of confusing double meanings. Hopefully you will start to learn to just say no to people, like I just have. It’s liberating. Good luck.

I have some acquaintances and friends from years ago, but I think it's because I mask a lot. I'm not officially diagnosed, so it could just be trauma, PTSD, and anxiety. I try to be really nice and fun with people and listen to them a lot, but I could do better since I haven't contacted some for a while now.

That's a smart approach. It's better to keep the whole PM closed. Don't worry; I understand.

I looked into it, and now I'm sure it is, and even my therapist told me it's negging. I've read stories where people only use it on women they perceive as being out of their league, mainly in terms of physical attraction but also financially, physically, in terms of personality, etc. I've heard pickup artists (PUA artists) using these tactics in modern times to find girlfriends and wives. I've also heard married women complain that negging didn't stop, even though that's what was used on them when they first met.

There's even a Gumball episode where Mrs. Watterson is nagged to marry another guy in an alternative timeline, and he keeps negging her all the way into their marriage until she snaps and murders him.

So, yeah, not a good start to any type of relationship, especially considering I've known this guy since we were kids. A whole relationship built on insecurity sounds like hell. Now that I think about it, I believe that's my parents' relationship – my mom is very beautiful, and my dad is ugly inside and out. I think my own mother got fooled by negging.

Yeah I definitely need to learn to say no and to put up boundaries, I'm way too nice for no reason.
I don't know where it's coming from though.

Yeah you're right, I have the power to step away. I think I always stick around toxic people because I'm used to it and rarely find kind people to spend time with.

But don't forget the vast numbers of men who are heads of companies, research, banking, medicine etc. All sorts of high up jobs like that. Not all men work in physical, tough jobs like the ones you list. So obviously men have a wide variety of personalities and talents, just like women do.

I don't think it's healthy to force men to suppress all emotions. Everyone needs to release emotions sometimes, obviously not when working, but at other times.

Oh yes I got caught in that for so many years! Being 'friends' with toxic people becuase that's how I was brought up and it seems normal to me.

I don't know many kind people who actually like me. So I just stay at home 24/7. I only see my husband and daughter. I'm not sure how I ended up with them. But it seems that's my lot. No more friends for me, just those two.

Honestly, I think you should block him and just avoid talking to him. You're not going to get anything from that type except more attempts to manipulate you. Why worry about being rude to him when he doesn't show you the same respect?

I agree with you. Why bother with someone who is manipulating you?

run

I agree that you should just move on from this person and don't look back. My experience with manipulative people is that if you keep coming back to them you'll just get more of the same. I don't know why it can be so hard to give up on things like this. I have personally had a situation like this recently, and it's been so hard to resist the urge to go back and try to get some reasonably positive and supportive response from them.

I agree with the person in the thread who said that negging is often just part of the power dynamics of NT style social communication and doesn't necessarily have to be part of any PUA tactic or tactics.

People do that kind of thing to each other as friends, without any intentions of going to bed with people or whatever.

Sometimes it is labelled 'banter' or some such thing.

Hi Cookies, have you managed to sort out your problem yet?

To clarify what I meant here, I understand that it's really frustrating when you have some sort of a friendship with someone, and it seems that they're not treating you with respect. In that situation I've found I have a desire to try again, by reaching out to them further. But my experience is also that in these situations I keep getting the same response, which makes me feel worse.

DirkGently69 and blitzkrieg seem to suggest that you should just not expect much in the way of connection from your interactions with these people, if I'm reading them right. Maybe then I'd update my advice and say to interact with such people in a detached way, not expecting much, and not needing any kind of validation from them.

If this guy makes you feel bad and you have no romantic feelings towards him, then just cut him off instead of wasting time and energy trying to analyze it. Go with your gut feelings. Stick to people that makes you feel good and secure.