The Modesty Movement: A New Hope?

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Alicorn
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27 Aug 2007, 11:02 pm

Maybe in a generation or two Western Women won't be such wrecks...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=13896381

http://www.girlsgonemild.com


Quote:
"Hi, Slut!"

There is a metal go-go cage in which a group of Duke girls clad in tiny denim skirts and halters perform a modified pole dance, but no one seems to be watching. . . . Much to the disappointment of many students, female and male, there's no real dating scene at Duke—true for a lot of colleges. "I've never been asked out on a date in my entire life—not once," says one stunning brunette. Nor has a guy ever bought her a drink. "I think that if anybody ever did that, I would ask him if he were on drugs," she says. Rather, there's the casual one-night stand, usually bolstered by heavy drinking and followed the next morning by—well, nothing, usually. "You'll hook up with a guy, and you know that nothing will come out of it," says Anna. The best thing you can hope for, she says, "is that you'll get to hook up with him again."

—Janet Reitman, Rolling Stone, June 1, 2006

When Rolling Stone magazine starts to read like the National Review, then clearly something has gone very wrong. Not since the Cuban missile crisis of 1962 has there been such bipartisan agreement that we have a problem. It is certainly puzzling. On the one hand, girls are more educated and women more successful in business than ever before. At the same time, girls report that in their private lives, they are feeling enormous pressure to be sexually active and don't know how to say no. Numerous studies from left, right, and center have shown that when women get to college, they are extremely dissatisfied with the lack of a "dating scene." They long to be taken out but instead are made to feel they are weird if they don't "go with the flow" of the hookup scene instead. "The guy means nothing to you" is the socially correct view to adopt. Even an article in a women's magazine encouraging the sisterhood to be happy as singles—"Down with the Husband Hunt!" was the charming title—the author had to admit that she "succumbs . . . from time to time" to the theory "that we are living in a lopsided dating universe in which the cards are all stacked in favor of the guys." Kerry Ball, twenty-nine, of Miami, told her, "Men are just looking for girls to mess around with rather than have a relationship with or even simply date. There are so many single girls looking for relationships that these guys have no trouble finding someone to sleep with them." The number of unmarried women between ages thirty and thirty-four has more than tripled during the past thirty years, and the percentage of childless women in their early forties has doubled. You might say that the "glass ceiling" has shifted from work to women's personal lives.



hksj
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27 Aug 2007, 11:09 pm

"Pre-sex discussion" is a novel concept? It's nice to see dissent on this. If you find this interesting, you might also like Ariel Levy's Female Chauvinist Pigs: Women and the Rise of Raunch Culture.



Pugly
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27 Aug 2007, 11:24 pm

Hey this is actually good news for me. My approach to relationships is actually going to be appreciated by women. Being a virgin and waiting till marriage will be a good thing...

It's time to put the sexual revolution back in a cage.

If I see one more child that is dressed like a whore I am going to punch the parents in the face...


well not really...but someone should.

Edit:Listening to the npr program...

Ah... 8O women bickering... it makes my brain hurt. :?


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Flagg
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27 Aug 2007, 11:52 pm

Pugly wrote:
Hey this is actually good news for me. My approach to relationships is actually going to be appreciated by women. Being a virgin and waiting till marriage will be a good thing...


Not when 54.8% of American marriages fail within the first two years. Marriage is a faliure as social instiution since the point has died - which was consoilidate power between two familes. You lose any tax benefits in the divorce and end up giving the woman a check till the day you die. It's also easier to break up if you don't have to go through all that paperwork and court. And if you have kids they're too stupid care your not married.

Pugly wrote:
It's time to put the sexual revolution back in a cage.


Just don't trample on the rights of others to keep it out. Sex is a form of expression and therefore protected by the first amendment.

Pugly wrote:
If I see one more child that is dressed like a whore I am going to punch the parents in the face...


Their kid, their problem. Not your right to tell others how to use their first amendment rights.



Pugly
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28 Aug 2007, 12:06 am

Flagg wrote:
Not when 54.8% of American marriages fail within the first two years. Marriage is a faliure as social instiution since the point has died - which was consoilidate power between two familes. You lose any tax benefits in the divorce and end up giving the woman a check till the day you die. It's also easier to break up if you don't have to go through all that paperwork and court. And if you have kids they're too stupid care your not married.


Well even if my marriage fails, waiting to have sex until marriage is still a good thing. And I believe there is some statistic out there pointing out that people who wait till marriage have a higher chance of marriages that last. It very well could be that those who do want to wait till marriage have more vested in wanting to make the marriage work... so it's more correlation and not cause... but it's still significant.

If you are viewing a marriage as purely a tool for the government, well then there isn't much I can say that can make it look like it's worthwhile. But for me there are benefits to staying in a solid relationship with someone forever, with legal and social boundaries than can help keep it in check during the rough times...

Flagg wrote:
Just don't trample on the rights of others to keep it out. Sex is a form of expression and therefore protected by the first amendment.


I'm not putting anyones rights anywhere... I am just indicating a desire for the culture to go back to being chaste and modest. Playing a pure numbers games, it'll be easier for me to find someone who holds these same ideals when they are a part of the culture.

"Flagg wrote:
Their kid, their problem. Not your right to tell others how to use their first amendment rights.


Well from a care and well being standpoint... I believe they are harming their child by doing this. It's equivalent to neglect... actually worse than neglect... like child abuse...

Since you don't hold the same views as I do, you would not see it the same way I do. But if someone is beating their child... well that's something I think most would want to stop.


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Wonder what it feels like to be in love?
How would you describe it, like a push or shove?
Guess I could pretend that this is all I need
Wanting more than what I have might appear as greed.


calandale
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28 Aug 2007, 3:25 am

Pugly wrote:
But if someone is beating their child... well that's something I think most would want to stop.


I jump in and help them.
Really confuses the living
s**t out of everyone involved.



Pugly
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28 Aug 2007, 10:20 am

calandale wrote:
Pugly wrote:
But if someone is beating their child... well that's something I think most would want to stop.


I jump in and help them.
Really confuses the living
sh** out of everyone involved.


Do the parents buy you a drink afterwards?


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Wonder what it feels like to be in love?
How would you describe it, like a push or shove?
Guess I could pretend that this is all I need
Wanting more than what I have might appear as greed.


JonnyBGoode
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28 Aug 2007, 12:13 pm

I blame Bratz. :roll:


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Pugly
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28 Aug 2007, 12:33 pm

JonnyBGoode wrote:
I blame Bratz. :roll:


I would too, but it seems this stuff has been going down hill for a long time... each generation hasn't wanted to stop the next generation from doing what they did... even if what they were doing was wrong and they know it.

They say, well I did the same thing when I was growing up... and I turned out fine. Except what they don't realize is that what the kids are doing is a couple of degrees worse than what they did... and so it goes...


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Wonder what it feels like to be in love?
How would you describe it, like a push or shove?
Guess I could pretend that this is all I need
Wanting more than what I have might appear as greed.


Todd489
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28 Aug 2007, 1:09 pm

For some reason I've always found myself more attracted to "good Christian" girls, even though I'm vehemently opposed to organized religion. They just seem to be the only type that doesn't do those sorts of things, so I guess they're the lesser of two evils.

Hopefully one day I'll meet a girl who lacks the ignorance of either party.



juliekitty
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28 Aug 2007, 3:11 pm

Alicorn wrote:
the theory "that we are living in a lopsided dating universe in which the cards are all stacked in favor of the guys."


I agree with this completely.

This is what I was talking about in another thread where I was saying the man-pursues-woman convention has been reversed, and that it isn't to women's benefit. I don't like it and I won't participate in it. In fact, I date exactly like my mother did in the 50's.

Fortunately, there are enough old-fashioned guys around to keep me busy.



juliekitty
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28 Aug 2007, 3:19 pm

I so wish women would maintain more stringent standards regarding how they want to be treated by men.

Sure, guys who aren't that into you will disappear, but that's what you want. The ones who really like you will rise to the occasion.



Pugly
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28 Aug 2007, 3:24 pm

juliekitty wrote:
In fact, I date exactly like my mother did in the 50's.


What exactly does that entail?


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Wonder what it feels like to be in love?
How would you describe it, like a push or shove?
Guess I could pretend that this is all I need
Wanting more than what I have might appear as greed.


juliekitty
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28 Aug 2007, 7:17 pm

Letting men pursue; dating more than one guy at a time; not being exclusive right away; and "dating" and "having sex with" not being synonymous.



LePetitPrince
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29 Aug 2007, 12:53 am

There's no male modesty movement ?