Veresae's Girl Problems

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I'm not sure if this should be in The Haven or here, but whatever. I basically have two major problems in the way of getting a romantic relationship (something I desperately wish to have).

Problem Number One: Goth girls. Oh, deary me, goth girls. Or lack thereof.

There just aren't very many of them where I live. It's not that I couldn't settle for a girl who wasn't gothic, but it's the one look that really drives me barmy. There are plenty of girls who are pretty, but it's usually in a way where it's like, "Oh, they're pretty, but just not my type." As in, they're attractive, but they seem dull and ordinary to me because I basically only am really attracted to one look. I know it's shallow to only find one particular look attractive, but I can't help what I am or am not attracted to.

Thus, it's a good thing I'm more interested in personality. But at the same time, it's not that simple, especially since darker, gothier people also tend to be into music that most other people don't like because it's too dark, depressing, creepy, etc. Most of the music I like is somehow associated with gothy-ness (even though any purist would argue that none of the music I like is truly "gothic, " as I don't like any of the traditional 80's stuff a la The Cure or Bauhaus). This is all made even worse because a lot of girls won't date a guy who isn't in to the same music as them, and I find a lot of what gets played on the radio these days to be annoying in the same way that a lot of people would find the music I like annoying.

Most of the gothic females in the bay area are either a) in their 30's, or b) hopelessly obese (I'm sorry but I find that very unattractive)--and even without those restrictions they're still few and far between. Add in the all-important personality factor and you've got a rather terrible situation.

Let's be hypothetical for a moment: what if there WAS a hot goth girl at my college that was my age and had a good personality? Doubt she'd be single. There's supposed to be a lot of diversity at my college (that's what it and its students claim), but how come the dark alternative sorts are so rare?


Problem Number Two: That little thing called confidence....

So, TYPICALLY girls like confidence because they're insecure, and also because guys are always hitting on them anyway so they don't have to do anything and they're used to that. They can just take their pick from whoever approaches them. And it's really terrible, because it basically comdemns insecure guys like me. It's impossible for me to be confident about girls because no girls that I like like that EVER feel the same way (at least in real life), and the girls who DO like me like that are typically girls that I don't like much even as friends.

Also, I've been led on many times by seemingly kind girls who, saaaay, promise to call me and never do (this is even for girls I'm just trying to be friends with). It's a paradox because on one hand, nobody wants to be in a relationship with a b***h, but on the other hand, you can never tell if a nice girl is, well, just being nice.

Thus, in my case, being confident is practically being cocky since the odds of it turning into an actual relationship (or even an actual friendship) are so bleak. But this creates another vicious cycle because even if I DO get the guts to talk to a girl, then my insecurity likely shows and is a part of what renders me unattractive to the girl I'm trying to talk to--which of course is something that I think about before hand, and that makes the situation seem even BLEAKER in my mind, and makes me MORE insecure, and on and on and on it goes in a wicked spiral of DOOM!

Freakin' gender roles. They say "Don't look for love, let love come to you," but if you're a guy you can't do that because girls expect guys to approach them and be the masculine one, but I'm not very masculine and wouldn't WANT to be the masculine one in a relationship. But I can't change the way the social world is.... >.<

Now, there are some girls who don't follow this norm, who don't follow the gender roles. But they're significantly harder to find, and half the time are lesbians. So, I really just...don't know what to do.

EDIT: I just saw Aridarr's post "To all Aspie men who are angry with women," but I still stand by what I say in this post. These are my experiences in the social world, and I don't blame the girls for not liking me, I'm still angry that so few of them aren't up front about it and lead me on, that gender roles are so persistant, that I'm expected to be confident to get a relationship when I'm not, and that there are so few people around me that I have any romantic interest in. I don't say these things out of malice. I say them because that's how they've been for me and I'm mad about them, and expect them to continue this way so I don't know what to do.

That must really suck, only being attracted to one type of woman. I'd be fine with pretty much anyone as long as they weren't fat and didn't have an unnattractive face, yet I still can't find anyone. That's almost 99% my own problem, though. Still, it wouldn't hurt you to try and settle for something else.

As for confidence, I have the same problem. I'm smarter, stronger, and more musically talented than 9 out of 10 of the guys at my high school, yet I always feel like I should apologize to all women whose field of vision I enter. Faking confidence can work if you get good at it. If you walk around like one of those guys in clothes commercials, you'll get treated like them regardless of what you look like. It sounds crazy and I didn't believe it either but as soon as I tried it I noticed girls smiling at me and sometimes even trying to talk to me. It was like some ridiculous cheat code. If you act confident then maybe a girl will approach you and make things a lot easier. If she's confident enough to approach a guy despite what society says about gender roles, then she's probably ok with being the confident decision-making force in your relationship if your goal is to be the submissive one.

Well, hope I helped. Good luck!

Actually I have tried acting confident, and what I've gotten was girls who acted nice in the moment but never gave a s**t when I wasn't around. Thanks though....

To clarify, I'm still attracted to girls who aren't gothic, I just always feel like, "Oh, I wish they were a little more gothic. I like them for who they are anyway, but...." You know?

i hear you loud and clear re confidence. you know what i do? i say f**k them gender roles. i polish my nails the way i want, i pretty myself up the way i want and i do think that it also is okay to be shy if i want to. au contraire, i also like when a girl can take care of herself instead of clinging to her partner for directing her life. after all, i dont want a puppet, i want someone on eye level.
if that topic comes to talk, i found that a lot of girls like my point of view - ironically, it somehow is like being confident about being shy.

re gothiness: youd be surprised... quite al ot of ungothy girls i have talked to dismissed the whole scene styling thing at first, but quite liked the idea of fully dressing up. some descriptions and photos from different places to go and they didnt seem so anti anymore. i guess not all of them throw their dreams of being a princess for one day away. (which is good. i wouldnt want to be with anyone too pretend-grown-up to dream)

Move to England theres always plenty of slender dark goth gals here, its the weather you see and the English temperament. That said there are'nt as many Goths now as there was 10 to 15 years ago, too Americanised now here.

You do have to be careful, goth girls can be just as easily catty, stuck up, and especially if you don't look or dress just like one of them they could be smart-eyeing you like your some dumb commoner. Not to say that all people aren't different, just that alternative girls who sport a lot of flash to showcase being alternative - they can be just as bad as the self-ordained 'image of popular America' social elite.

You will find a lot of really cool girls who have been into that stuff but have broadened out to other sounds, usually balanced themselves out and settled down a bit - they will dress a bit preppy but at the same time they're wearing more off-brands and carrying themselves with a certain altruistic glow like you tell that they'd appreciate divergent styles of music because they'll listen to it analytically for its merits rather than be stuck on the stuff most people tend to get hung up on (one that I especially hate - hey! That doesn't sound like something that MTV told me I should like....).

If you want to have a real, meaningful relationship with someone, then their fashion style is one of the least important things you should be worrying about.

If your interest in gothic girls is only a fetish, then you aren't interested in them as a person, but an object, which isn't healthy for anyone.

10 or 15 years ago, the US was rife with
goths.

I can't move right now. Just that simple.



I know, and that makes it even worse. I wouldn't want to date a goth girl who was a b***h even if she was really hot. But just because some are like that doesn't mean all are. And also, sometimes people aren't just conforming to the stereotype to be cool, but rather just like a select few things. I don't conform at all but I still like things that are typical for geeks and goths...



It's not about the fashion--it's not even entirely about the look. I mean, yeah, one of the main draws is that I find goth girls way hotter than other girls, but it's not just about that. It's an entire culture. My beliefs, tastes, interests, and overall personality are all far more common with gothic girls than with non-gothic girls. I'm an atheist; uncommon for non-goths, very common for goths. I like Cradle of Filth and vampires and Tim Burton movies and all this other stuff that tends to be associated with gothic girls. (Note: I'm talking neo-goths, not the 80's goths who are now in their 30's. I've already argued with Deus_ex_machina about the great differences between his traditional gothic culture and the one that's more popular among teenagers these days....) And I don't see women as objects, not at all...hell, I pay much more attention to the feelings of women than the feelings of men.

You should be careful about romantic perfectionism. Obviously, no relationship is perfect. However, even if you did find a goth girl, she wouldn't be goth all the time, would she? Especially as you grow older, more and more compromises get made, and we need to deal with the reconciliation of our dreams and what is. Goth today, non-goth tomorrow.

My last girlfriend was a good woman. She was really good for me -- loved music as much as me, but was optimistic, determined, and down-to-earth, which I'm not. Yet I couldn't get past the physical issue. She was not my type, so the relationship kind of fell off. I just didn't try. That was a serious mistake beause it's more difficult finding someone you click with and improves your life than finding another version of yourself.

Mesh, I'm not saying I wouldn't date someone just because she wasn't gothic if we worked together...it's just a source of torment for me because there are so few people that I find attractive in real life. I don't even have that high standards, I'm just turned off by a lot of things and those things happen to be very popular where I live.

I've heard the saying, "Don't look for love, let it come to you," but in this sexist society I can't do that because I'm a guy...if I sit around waiting for a girl then some other guy will get to her first because she sure as hell won't approach me. Except there aren't any girls I'm all that interested in approaching in the first place. I really don't know what to do....

I wish I wasn't a romantic...I wish I didn't want a relationship. Life would be so much easier without that constant desire hanging over my head....

Im with you there, up to an extent. I only hate the feeling when Im lonely. Which is pretty much all the time anyway

I wish I could change what I liked so that I could stop liking goth girls and have wider idea of beauty.