Bullying's effects on AS males ability to initiate

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The bullying would make the AS male more nervous around people in general. This is because they would fear being hurt and judged for being weird. These fears would be even stronger when it comes to initiating a relationship with a female.

^I can definitely see how bullying would affect a guy in terms of having to be the one doing the asking and then add that with ASD and it can be a very sensative issue. I know for me, bullying affected me in ways where I was too scared to even go out when asked because I was afraid it was a joke or that I'd be rejected right on the spot. It also made me afraid to look at people when I was talked to so...it was very hard on me and I'm a female.

I guess for NT guys, it kind of comes naturally...either that or it and society leaves a heavy burden for guys who have to do the asking lest the be misconstrued to being gay or uninterested. But I will say that I have seen a number of girls in my college do a lot of the asking. My sister does it all the time and most of the guys she's dated were very low key...not exactly outgoing like herself.

It can go both ways but I see now where bullying can be a huge dilemma for guys and how they play or fit their "role".

I have been bullied my whole life. I still flinch when people move their hands really fast around me. Or cover my head when someone runs at me or raises a fist. I was always beat up by people or friends... Who said they where trying to toughen me up -_-'. I've only asked on girl ever out in person and she not only denied me but publically embarrassed me and I was teased for the rest of my middle school life for it.
I in can no way ever make a move to a girl in person now.. Evey move I have done has been online via email or messenger. I've only had 3 gfs and they all have seen me as a man who can't make a stand..

Bullying has ruined my social skills that I may of developed. I could never come up with verbal comebacks or even fight back. I always just sat down and took it. Confrontation is a big pitfall for me. I can't yell at people I can't tell someone how I feel. I mean even my co workers take advantage of me. They will sit in the back and let me do all the work while they piss off and I can't say hey I need you help.. That's just me though..

What's less successful?
Having no relationships?
Or systematically destroying the mental well being of those you do manage to get into a relationship with?

Bullies were generally bullied themselves and fight it by bullying those "below" themselves.
Same as fish in the sea. Little fish are eaten by bigger fish who are in turn eaten by bigger fish.

I can relate to the being bullied during school as I also was.
For me, I don't think it had any connection to the fear of rejection.
Bullying knocks the self esteem and confidence in anyone.
Aspies don't "fit in" anyway, so I guess end up being targets because of that.

So, whether you can conclusively draw a link between the two, I don't know.

Totally agree. Bullying can really, really destroy people. Case in point: me.

Only recently did I managed to shake the burden and the pain of having been bullied during my teenage years. By "teenage years" I mean "middle school, 12", and by "recently" I mean "late college, 22". And that was after my best friend lectured me on the importance of being braver and more confident.

My advice: if you're bullied, move to another school ASAP, keep a low profile, and go find a psychologist NAO. Don't worry if you have to bounce around schools like a pinball. Because every passing year of bullying means another 3 years of psychological scars.

Once you understand evolution , you'll understand human behavior

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C9CH3q9PLI[/youtube]

thanks for Bogan for forwarding this vid to me

The therapy is to do activities that will make you more assertive and confident in yourself and your abilities. Public speaking, martial arts, outdoor activities, and maybe an actual argument or two -- these things will break down your personal barriers. You're the one holding you back. Odds are people are more afraid of you than you give them credit for.

*sigh* I know what thats like...

Yes, I agree with this. Being bullied has caused me more long term problems than AS ever has. However, there is a reason why people with AS traits get bullied more.....


... and that is basically the reason. I remember other NT's just knew how to behave and what to say to get the bully off their back. Appealing to reason and logic never worked, but I had no other way

In terms of taking initiative with females, it's not just that you have your own self-esteem to worry about. You are in direct competition with other males. If you don't have high social and physical status, other males higher up the pecking order are more likely to move in on your partner if they consider you a pushover. On the other hand, they will respect you if they fear you.

I think ya quoted the wrong guy above -- that was me that said it

There are times where you're in a lot of competition with other guys (like at bars and some other social situations), but the threat from other guys is a lot less than you think. A lot of guys make the assumption that all other guys are competition for any given girl, or that a certain core elite (especially handsome, dashing, or skilled guys) are at the front of the line. I'm hoping some women will chime in on this thread to confirm, but my experience is that this is not the case at all.

Many times, guys you think are your competition aren't even in the running. Everyone has their own tastes, and women tend to be very picky with those tastes. Their tastes change over time as well, so for any given woman, out of 100 guys, maybe only 1 or 2 suit her tastes, and that one or two could include you, not the Tom Cruise lookalike who immediately sets off her BS radar.

Men tend to take the "all guys are competition" view because for a lot of us, a lot of women are acceptable sex candidates, but our tastes are overly broad. Women are not generally wired the same way -- they don't seek immediate sexual gratification, but are more resource-oriented and geared for the long-haul. They make their choices a lot more carefully, and look for different traits than men do. Men look at body, face, overall looks, likelihood of putting out, personality (note I mentioned that a lot later). Women look at assets, influence, confidence, personality, looks, and loyalty/fidelity, in something of that order.

Some good advices here:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_do_kids_get_bullied




Funny, it seems that victimization increases AS-like symptoms.

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/ ... ekey=93391




I recall incident that reinforces billsmithglendale's theory and it was about that bully who was double my size at school once , while I was sitting on my chair he came to me and suddenly turned his back and farted on me after he insulting my mother. I said nothing and kept watching him quietly for retaliation during the lecture , I noticed that he was swinging on his chair so I purposely dropped a pencil near to his chair and pretended that I was trying to grab it , when I came close to his chair I quickly puled it legs violently causing him to fall on his butt , that caused him serious pain and before giving him the chance to stand on his feet I kicked him while he was on floor.

Them the teacher and other students separated us of course, weird that teacher didn't send me to the principle as he knows that I am not the kind who would do such act without a reason. What's weirder , that the guy didn't retaliate, in fact he became the mockery of the class.

It seems that billsmithglendale's can work at school and at some circumstances , but when one face an armed militia of bullies then things are totally different.

Once I have kids, I honestly wonder how I'll handle it if they are bullied in any way like I was when I was younger. There's a temptation to hunt the bullies down and beat them within an inch of their lives, maybe right at school in front of everyone as an object lesson. Instead (since I don't want to go to jail), maybe I'll just sue the crap out of them and their parents Or at least make their lives hell and publicly embarrass them. Having someone's 6 foot 2 inch 220 pound dad in your face might change your mind about your bullying career, no?

The thing that makes this hard is that the victim always feels shame about having somehow deserved the bullying or not being strong enough to prevent it, and then doesn't report it. The research I read basically says that certain types of people tend to attract bullying, and once it gets started, all sorts of other bullies pile on it. I endured several kinds of bullying over a 3-4 year period and never said really anything to my parents about it. At its worst, I was getting bullied by my peers, teachers, and the occasional adult on a semi-regular basis, and my parents apparently had no clue, though they were ignoring some pretty obvious signs, like falling grades, rising anxiety levels, behavioral outbursts, etc. I'm really pretty mad at them for keeping me in that awful environment, and you know things are bad when the gang members you go to school with are nicer to you than your immediate peers and teachers. At least the gang members treated me with respect.

Sometimes I wish I had a time machine and a baseball bat -- I'd go back and rectify a few things for my younger self In the meantime, I can take steps to make sure others don't meet the same fate, by helping out here and in the community, and by being more vigilant when I have kids.

I think you'll understand much current human behaviour once you understand involution not evolution.

A lot of myths unchallenged in that link. e.g, I've recently read that bullies have high self-esteem, not low. Also many bullies are not victims themselves. This certainly reflects my anecdotal experience. Most teachers and parents are frightened of bullies too. When a problem is beyond their comprehension, people will accept platitudes and any old nonsense as the answer.



Funny, it seems that victimization increases AS-like symptoms. [/quote]

That's a really good point! I've said before, and I'll say it again and again, most of our symptoms are not coming from the inside, they are coming from how others treat us. This is radically different to an illness, disease or malady.

As for bullying and dating, the thing that I noticed that bullies were usually popular and liked by most girls while victims were not. It's not true when they say that bullies are usually hated by girls and the majority of students.

From what I've read, bullies can be divided into two general groups --

The kinds that are popular and use the bullying to further their power/influence, and the kinds that are bullied/abused at home or at school, and thus are just looking for someone to take their own anger and misery out on. The second kind tend to be a lot less popular, as they are generally unpleasant to everyone, as opposed to the first kind, who are usually socially competent, popular, and well liked except for when they exert their bullying (and usually only on select people or at select moments)

Apparently the "popular" bullies respond best to intervention and treatment, and are more likely to correct their behavior. These are people who actually care about their own lives, and got into bullying because no one enforced boundaries on them (because of their popularity and generally good reputation), or because they were slightly sociopathic. They also tend to come from pretty good homes, probably with good parents who let them get away with a lot and who boost their self esteem to overly high levels. The worst you will see from them is teazing, hazing, some vandalism or mild violence in most cases, or maybe at the worst, date rape/assault. You'll also see relational aggression, as they turn peers against their targets. You'll see this a lot with female bullies, especially.

The second type of bully is usually disliked and feared by most, and is near the bottom of the social heap. No one likes them, no one invites them to events, and they probably are depressed and hate life. Their world outlook is very negative, and they probably have been victims of child abuse or some other kind of abuse on a regular basis. Life to them is pain, and they seek to make this a reality for others as well. If they can make someone else have a bad day or feel pain, their pain doesn't feel as bad, and they feel empowered. For people like that, it's all about power, as they come from a home environment where they have none. These ones will turn into hardened criminals and do some of the most despicable acts.

These are the people you should fear the most, because unlike the first type of bully, they won't grow out of it, and they don't give too much of a s**t about their own lives. These are the types of people who will go to prison willingly for doing something stupid or mean, because after all, how much worse is it than what they grew up with? These are also the people you need to stop, to get the authorities on, to flush out of the system, to get legal intervention on, because these are the ones who will ruin the lives of other people.