Carrying your own weight/paying your share
So i've been dating the woman of my dreams lately. She's surpassed nearly everything I"ve been longing for in an SO. She's smart, she's funny, she likes me, she even understands my AS. However, there is a problem. She dosn't seem to like paying for ANYTHING. It gets mighty annoying on dates too, as I really can't afford to take us out anymore. I'm used to dates in the past, in which some females would either go dutch or sometimes even pay for me (rare, but it was pleasant when it happened). I love her greatly and do not mind paying for her, but I simply cannot afford it. She does not own a car but does work, so I understand that I must pick her up, but that being said it would be nice if she chipped in now and again. What annoys me worse is that she's started leaving her purse/wallet in the car. Sooo. What should I do? I spoke with her briefly and told her in a joking manner that I could not "be the nice boyfriend anymore and we simply wouldn't be able to go out as often as we were." She said "oh by all means, she understood". How should I break it to her? I really like her, i love the rest of her, but that is one niggling but major point that bugs me. Whats everyone's opinion on who pays for what on the dates?
Last edited by ma_137 on 03 Jan 2006, 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'd say tell her that you're running out of funding, so she can either help out or you'll have to go on low-budget dates, or very few high-budget ones. I'd favor being kind but direct. If you can't afford to pay for everything for her, you can't, end of story. It's not unchivalrous to need help with money, and it's not like you're asking her to give money for something she isn't benefitting from. Just be sure that when you talk to her you don't say it as an attack (etc. "This isn't a big deal, and I'm not upset, I'm just concerned about funding our dates all on my own" or something nicer which I can't think of ATM). ((I'd talk about it in person- it'll be harder but she might appreciate it. Also don't talk about it right before you do something that'll cost money.))
I'm frankly surprised at how long the custom of the man paying for everything on a date has continued. Women have been fighting for equality for a long time, and I don't see why that doesn't apply to dating, too. Chivalry still enjoys positive status in our society, but it's based on the archaic notion that women need to be cared for because they can't take care of themselves.
At best, it seems like an outdated and sexist tradition, and at worst, a form of prostitution -- which I suppose I wouldn't have a problem with, except for the dishonest way it's misrepresented in this context.
Okay, I guess I'm being a bit harsh. Human beings are animals, after all, and it's very common in the animal kingdom for the male to be ostentatious in his ability to provide for a prospective mate as part of the courtship ritual. I'd just like to think we can get past such primitive practices.
I think you're perfectly reasonable to ask her to pay for her share. As for how to broach the subject, Serissa's suggestions sound good to me. Tact is not my forté.
Jeremy
Guys are supposed to pay for dates. I only let a girl pay if she asks me if she can pay.
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Yes, but why? What is the underlying reason for this custom?
Jeremy
THIS one I WILL chalk up to female conspiracy.

Actually I'd guess it goes back to the fact that men used to have all the money, period, or most of it (before women were more in the work force.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Going_Dutch is a kind of interesting, albiet brief article on "going dutch," but it doesn't explain why women aren't supposed to pay for things. Some guys seem to be geniunely offended by the idea of -not- paying, as if it's a part of their masculinity. Some women might think guys should "be the man" and pay, and some don't.
I, personally, don't care who pays for what so long as both parties can afford it. Boyfriends are not bank accounts.
As a naive youngster, I used to think that the phrase "The world's oldest profession" was meant to demonstrate the historical ubiquity of prostitution and thus the foolishness of attempting its coerced abolishment. Only later did it serve to make more plain to me the true nature of the relations between the sexes.
No wonder then that a young college-educated bourgeois male of my generation who scoffed at the idea of marriage for himself, who would just as soon eat out of cans or in cafeterias, sweep his own floor, make his own bed, and come and go with no binding legal attachments, finding female friendship and sexual adventure where and when he could and for no longer than he liked, laid himself open to the charge of "immaturity," if not "latent" or blatant "homosexuality." Or he was just plain "selfish." Or he was "frightened of responsibility." Or he could not "commit himself" (nice institutional phrase, that) to "a permanent relationship." Worst of all, most shameful of all, the chances were that this person who thought he was perfectly able to take care of himself on his own was in actuality "unable to love."
An awful lot of worrying was done in the fifties about whether people were able to love or not -- I venture to say, much of it by young women in behalf of the young men who didn't particularly want them to wash their socks and cook their meals and bear their children and then tend them for the rest of their natural days. "But aren't you capable of loving anyone? Can't you think of anyone but yourself" when translated from desperate fifties-feminese into plain English, generally meant "I want to get married and I want you to get married to."
Now I am sure that many of the young women of that period who set themselves up as specialists in loving hadn't a very clear idea of how strong a charge their emotions got from the instinct for survival -- or how much those emotions arose out of the yearning to own and be owned, rather than from a reservoir of pure and selfless love that was the special property of themselves and their gender. After all, how lovable are men? Particularly men "unable to love?" No, there was more to all that talk about "commitment" and "permanent relationshps" than many young women (and their chosen mates) were able to talk about or able at that time to fully understand: the more was the fact of female dependence, defenselessness, and vulnerability.
This hard fact of life was of course experienced and dealt with by women in accordance with personal endowments of intelligence and sanity and character. One imagines that there were brave and genuinely self-sacrificing decisions made by women who refused to accede to those profoundest of self-delusions, the ones that come cloaked in the guise of love; likewise, there was much misery in store for those who were never able to surrender their romantic illusions about the arrangement they had made in behalf of their helplessness, until they reached the lawyer's office, and he threw their way that buoy known as alimony. It has been said that those ferocious alimony battles that have raged in the courtrooms of this country during the last few decades, the way religious wars raged throughout Europe in the seventeenth century, were really "symbolic" in nature. My guess is that rather than serving as a symbol around which to organize other grievances and heartaches, the alimony frequently tended to clarify what was generally obscured by the metaphors with which marital arrangements were camouflaged by the partners themselves. The extent of the panic and rage aroused by the issue of alimony, the ferocity displayed by people who were otherwise sane and civilized enough, testifies, I think, to the shocking -- and humiliating -- realization that came to couples in the courtroom about the fundamental role that each may actually have played in the other's life. "So, it has descended to this," the enraged contestants might say, glaring in hatred at one another -- but even that was only an attempt to continue to hide from the most humiliating fact of all: that it really was this, all along.
From My Life As a Man, Philip Roth - 1970
Last edited by briangwin33 on 04 Jan 2006, 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
I like paying for things, I hate using or eating food or doing things that others have paid for. My coworkers try to get me to eat morning tea with them but I never do unless I've bought it. As for paying on dates and various stuff, well, it's just manners, I think. It seems really rude to me to not to pay for what you have, but I don't consider it rude when other people don't pay. Just when they fail to consider you when they are buying stuff. Like, if I paid for something the night before, I'd really hate it if they went and bought something only for themself and didn't get me anything. It's a one-good-turn-deserves-another type deal.
Would you mind if you were rich?
For me, it's an issue of equality. I don't want to feel indebted to the guy, and I sure as hell don't want the guy to be leeching off of me all the time, either. I think it's really hard to have a healthy relationship if there isn't a balance between the two people. So even if I were dating soemone rich, or if I were rich and dating someone who wasn't, I would still want there to be equality and not one party paying for everything.
I suppose you could try dates that don't cost much of anything, like going to museums.
ma_137, I think the *way* you phrase it when you bring it up depends on your underlying feelings. If you'd *like* to be the one to pay for everything in general, but just can't afford it, you could tell her that. But if you think the two of you should split paying for things more evenly, you'll want to make sure that's clear, or it might make things bumpy down the road.
Her behavior seems to indicate that she expects "the man" to pay for everything, but that doesn't mean she isn't perfectly willing to split costs more evenly in the future. Maybe she'd even prefer that (no dependency, as chamoisee said) but has gotten rebuffed in the past by guys who felt threatened when she offered, and she isn't willing to take the risk of offending you so early in the game.
At any rate, it will probably work out best if you're clear beforehand about your underlying feelings about paying for things in general.
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