I need to know why society think its ok to lie?

Page 6 of 9 [ 138 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

KenM
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,491
Location: Mass. USA

11 Apr 2009, 12:49 pm

makuranososhi wrote:

Is it possible that your definition of misleading is different than the standards of others? Your interactions with others are not likely to be successful if you continue to have expectations of them behaving to your whims and desires... and attempting them to conform to those needs or wants will likely end up pushing them further away. People are poor material for sculpture.

M.

Wow, when someone says to me "Lets be friends, Ken" I think thats what they mean. So then why I try and stay friends with them, then they get upset when I do. Then they come out and tell me "I was just trying to let you down easy, I never really wanted to be friends, or anything."

How is that NOT misleading? Seems pretty cut and try to me. My expectations is for people to be honest with me. Nothing more. They are the ones misleading me. Tell me how in the example I gave that is not misleading of them? How is that being honest?

makuranososhi
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 May 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,805
Location: Banned by Alex

11 Apr 2009, 12:58 pm

Ken - I hear that you are upset. However, continuing to rail against it is only creating space between you and people. You ask them once (and only once, according to what you've said) to be honest with you, and then get rankled that your expectations of honesty are different than their own. Do you specify exactly what you mean, in no uncertain terms, when you make this one statement? In their minds, they -ARE- being honest with you... your expectations are different than their own. I'm not condoning the games that are played, the nuance that supposed expresses one thing while saying another, but at the same time these are part of the game you seek to play. You can either accept this and adjust your expectations, or continue to choose to get angry when it happens again.

M.

_________________
My thanks to all the wonderful members here; I will miss the opportunity to continue to learn and work with you.

For those who seek an alternative, it is coming.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

Spokane_Girl

11 Apr 2009, 1:14 pm

KenM wrote:

makuranososhi wrote:

You know when they say "lets be friends" you know they don't mean that because so many times they don't contact you or return your calls or emails, etc.

I suppose if someone said it's raining cats and dogs, you're going to think they are saying cats and gods are falling out of the sky :roll:

Hey I'm literal and I am still able to learn what sentences mean what. I've learned idioms and learned what they mean so when someone says idiom, I know they mean X because that's what that idiom means.

It seems like to me you don't want people to use idioms with you, or anything even if you full well know what it means but you just refuse to accept "lets be friends" means "I don't want to have anything to do with you." Heck I learned that on here from other people that's what it means so when I ever hear that next time from someone, I won't take it seriously because they could just be saying that to be nice and they don't mean it. Even you have said yourself when women say "lets be friends" they don't really mean it so you full well know what it means.

KenM
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,491
Location: Mass. USA

11 Apr 2009, 1:37 pm

Yes I know what it means. But it does not mean I have to like it. I hate it, its part of all those little games the NTs play with each other and they assume that everyone knows the rules. They are scared of people with AS because we are straght foreward and direct. So they make fun of us and like to screw with us.

Also, I'm not seeking to play any kind of game, I'm looking for a women to spend my life with. If I feel there is any kind of game playing I walk away because I know I can't work through the BS. I cut through the BS because I'm honest and that scares them. There loss.

I will not allow people to mislead me, lie to me and treat me like crap. Other people let themselves get treated like that. Not me.

Spokane_Girl

11 Apr 2009, 2:56 pm

Well lot of aspies also use sarcasm and idioms and do jokes. I have seen it on here and I have spoken to many aspies and they do it too. Why? Because we're human and we learn. Just like dyslexics learn to read and spell correctly, they don't go around expecting others to misspell words because that's how they see the words written.

It's not misleading if you know what they mean because you had learned it. It's being a smartass when you take it literal on purpose because you were expecting them to speak literal. That is not aspie if you take it literal on purpose.

I don't expect to be catered. I just keep learning double meanings on here and try and remember them and there will be less misunderstandings for me in the future if I hear that double meaning being said to me. Like I learned at work when I was 21 or 22 that when I get told to bring up the rollaways, I am supposed to make them too but that can change because someone can tell me to bring up a rollaway and mean exactly what they said so that's why I would ask first just to make sure because my office clerk got mad at me for not making them because I didn't know I was supposed to. But I learned my lesson. I learned next time I get told to bring them up, I better ask if he wants me to make them too just to be sure because he could mean exactly what he said next time and I won't even know it because of what happened before.

Hey why not asking a woman next time when she says "lets be friends" ask her "you mean keep in touch or not have anything to do with me at all and you don't want me contacting you ever again?"

Because of that experiance you have been in many times, it's also your responsibility to make sure they said what they said or if they meant the double meaning so you know which one they meant because some people really do mean it when they say it or why not just wait for the woman to contact you again. If she never does, then you know she meant the double meaning.

Last edited by Spokane_Girl on 11 Apr 2009, 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Adam917
Raven
Raven

Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 100
Location: North America

11 Apr 2009, 6:49 pm

Spokane_Girl wrote:

Well lot of aspies also use sarcasm and idioms and do jokes. I have seen it on here and I have spoken to many aspies and they do it too. Why? Because we're human and we learn. Just like dyslexics learn to read and spell correctly, they don't go around expecting others to misspell words because that's how they see the words written.

It's not misleading if you know what they mean because you had learned it. It's being a smartass when you take it literal on purpose because you were expecting them to speak literal. That is not aspie if you take it literal on purpose.

I don't expect to be catered. I just keep learning double meanings on here and try and remember them and there will be less misunderstandings for me in the future if I hear that double meaning being said to me. Like I learned at work when I was 21 or 22 that when I get told to bring up the rollaways, I am supposed to make them too but that can change because someone can tell me to bring up a rollaway and mean exactly what they said so that's why I would ask first just to make sure because my office clerk got mad at me for not making them because I didn't know I was supposed to. But I learned my lesson. I learned next time I get told to bring them up, I better ask if he wants me to make them too just to be sure because he could mean exactly what he said net time and I won't even know it because of what happened before.

Hey why not asking a woman next time when she says "lets be friends" ask her "you mean keep in touch or not have anything to do with me at all and you don't want me contacting you ever again?"

Because of that experiance you have been in many times, it's also your responsibility to make sure they said what they said or if they meant the double meaning so you know which one they meant because some people really do mean it when they say it or why not just wait for the woman to contact you again. If she never does, then you know she meant the double meaning.

I think the point is why even have a double meaning in the first place? Even about the rollaways, if they'd just say to make the rollaways as opposed to bringing them up or getting them, it would've been easier as you had to get them first to make them anyway. With 'let's be friends', I'd expect that the person has serious issues processing language or if this wasn't their native language, I'd expect it to still mean we should do just that: be friends.

I think there would be far less mis-understandings in the world if only we became more honest and didn't need to try see what someone really means with every sentence as if everything that comes out of one's mouth were a riddle or something.

deadeyexx
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 758

11 Apr 2009, 7:51 pm

Spokane_Girl wrote:

Hey why not asking a woman next time when she says "lets be friends" ask her "you mean keep in touch or not have anything to do with me at all and you don't want me contacting you ever again?"

Can't agree "let's be friends" would be considered an idiom. There's really only one meaning. It's more of a gentle deflection to buy time until she's ready to say no, usually when she finds herself a new bf. I can't say this is truly the girl's fault either, as she usually just does this subconsciously to avoid conflict.

I agree with your advice though. Calling someone out like this can be an eye-opening experience for both people. I've done it once when I asked a girl on a date & she said maybe another time (which I knew meant postponed indefinately). I said, "no we won't". She ended up taking me more seriously after that & we had a good conversation afterward. Maybe a little dissapointed, but the honesty was liberating.

ToadOfSteel
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,157
Location: New Jersey

11 Apr 2009, 8:08 pm

makuranososhi wrote:

If only it were that easy... I had learned fairly early on that "Let's be friends" doesn't mean that at face value (as much as I don't like that fact)... but then there are the times where a woman does mean it... How that turns out depends on how much I believe the statement to be real or false. Back in high school, there was one time a girl said that to me. At the time, my mental NT->AS dictionary had a direct mapping that translated "Let's be friends" directly to "I don't want anything to do with you", so I acted accordingly, and generally excluded myself from her presence... A couple weeks later she was all pissed at me because she thought I was only after sex (and she was a fairly decent person in general)... Luckily in that case I was able to clear things up (owing mostly to her being understanding and patient with me when I explained the aforementioned mental mapping)... but it makes the cases where "Let's be friends" really does mean "I don't want anything to do with you" all the more aggravating, since that type of rejection is also driving me away from other women that are a bit more upstanding than the liars that I have been discussing in this thread...

deadeyexx wrote:

I agree with your advice though. Calling someone out like this can be an eye-opening experience for both people. I've done it once when I asked a girl on a date & she said maybe another time (which I knew meant postponed indefinately). I said, "no we won't". She ended up taking me more seriously after that & we had a good conversation afterward. Maybe a little dissapointed, but the honesty was liberating.

That's a good one... I may need to keep that in the playbook...

ToadOfSteel
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,157
Location: New Jersey

11 Apr 2009, 8:09 pm

makuranososhi wrote:

deadeyexx wrote:

Spokane_Girl wrote:

Hey why not asking a woman next time when she says "lets be friends" ask her "you mean keep in touch or not have anything to do with me at all and you don't want me contacting you ever again?"

That's a good one... I may need to keep that in the playbook...

KenM
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,491
Location: Mass. USA

11 Apr 2009, 8:15 pm

Not sure if I mentioned this. But EVERY time a women has used the lets be friends line to me was always to let me down easy. They never really wanted to be friends, so why tell me that? No one has ever said to me "I just want to be friends" and meant it. Then people wonder why I'm bitter.

Kilroy
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,549
Location: Beyond the Void

12 Apr 2009, 12:11 am

well then you learned a valuable lesson

greenblue
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,896
Location: Home

12 Apr 2009, 12:27 am

KenM wrote:

I understand. I don't think its right at all. I don't like it at all. Society is messed up this way. To me being honest with someone shows more respect then misleading them.

I'm always honest and I can sleep at night. How do these demons from hell live with themselves?

I haven't read the rest of the thread just up to this, so this may have been addressed, but I would say this anyway. There are some things to consider:

#1: She may have been honest and thought about that and later, changed her mind, people are like that, you can say it is annoying but it wouldn't mean to be dishonest, though the possibility of this may be low, but is there.

#2: Trying to not hurt your feelings, usually is when a person feels sympathy or empathy towards another person and deciding to say a "white lie" because of it.

#3: People's reaction to the truth, often people would react negatively if they are confronted with an honest approach, so to avoid that, people would likely say something in which the outcome would be better, more convenenient, and when the person who says such lie is not in the mood for such reaction, that said, if you want a perfect society of being purely honest without no one lying at all, then you would need to get rid of people who have an aggresive reaction to the truth, as the saying goes, people who can't handle the truth, lies can serve as a defense mechanism, wether to get out of trouble or to avoid confrontation, even a violent one, so lying becomes a necessity sometimes.

_________________
?Everything is perfect in the universe - even your desire to improve it.?

MissConstrue
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 17,052
Location: MO

12 Apr 2009, 12:36 am

wha.....wha........WHAT!! !

KenM I thought you had a revelation after this post about women like that. Yet here you are still going on about how bad these women treated you and how you hate it when they only want to be friends.

Move on for Pete's sake! It'll only get worse like it already has in this thread!! :hmph:

_________________
I live as I choose or I will not live at all.
~Delores O’Riordan

Spokane_Girl

12 Apr 2009, 2:14 am

KenM wrote:

Put it this way:

Do you have any habits? Can you stop doing them over night? Can you turn them off just like that like a light switch and never ever do them again the next day?

All those women have a habit of using double meanings so expecting them to be direct over night is impossible because it be like a parent telling her child to stop sucking his thumb and he agrees he will stop. Is he going to be able to stop over night so the next day he isn't sucking his thumb anymore? No, he needs to work on not doing it because habits are hard to break. You can't break them over night or in a few days. Also with habits, people don't even realize they are doing them so it will need to be pointed out to them they are doing it again so they are aware.

If my bf were to have a habit of using bad language and it was bothering me, he decides to work on not using those words because I am more important to him than his bad language so he decides to quit swearing. I am going to have to give him time to break that habit because he can't break it over night, it is going to take time.

So for all those women, it's going to take them time to break their habit of using double meanings when they speak to you. Expecting them to not do them at all when you tell them to be honest with you isn't going to work because they cannot break that habit over night. It takes a while to break a habit. I don't know for how long though but it depends on the person.

KenM
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,491
Location: Mass. USA

12 Apr 2009, 5:44 am

The point of this thread is to see why we allow people to be dishonest and lie to others. I know thats the way it is, but i don't have to like it. Other people besides me in this thread have said they don't like it. because "thats they way it is" or "everyone does it so its ok" is not a good reason to acept it. Its not ok.

Yes I did have a change of heart. I'm not looking at all. I will never look again because all women have mislead me and lied. I'm trying to understand why.

Last edited by KenM on 12 Apr 2009, 8:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

KenM
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,491
Location: Mass. USA

12 Apr 2009, 5:51 am

greenblue wrote:

#2: Trying to not hurt your feelings, usually is when a person feels sympathy or empathy towards another person and deciding to say a "white lie" because of it.

When I tell them I need them to be honest and straight forward, I also tell them it hurts me more when i feel they have lied to me. But they still do it when I tell them anything but the truth will hurt. That shows no sympathy or empathy towards me.

I do have habits, but none of my habits screw with other people like women do.

Page 6 of 9 [ 138 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 Next

Jump to:

I need to know why society think its ok to lie? Post Reply New Topic

I need to know why society think its ok to lie?