Are you a Fixer-Upper?

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This is aimed more at guys here than girls, though it could of course apply to girls as well.

A relationship has some things in common with shopping for a house or an apartment -- you're usually looking at a long-term commitment (or at least a 6 month lease), and because of the degree of time and effort involved, people (especially women) tend to look hard and carefully before they take the plunge. Houses are the biggest commitment, as they require long term debt, and a whole host of issues that you might be stuck with for years. Houses can be brand new or used, but either way, if they're not "perfect" (few things are after you get to know them), they fall into the categories of "fixer-uppers" or lemons.

So it is with relationships, and I think, maybe the main problem for a lot of guys here. While there are guys on this forum who have a fairly normal love life (mostly young teens who are getting along socially, meeting women, attracting them), there are some older guys here who have run into some kind of roadblock or barrier in their lives, and who use the forum both to vent and to seek advice -- both very valid uses of the forum.

What I would ask these guys is -- are you a fixer-upper, or a lemon? If you're finding that no one ever seems interested, and that you're repellent to the opposite gender, you're probably coming off as a lemon. In other words, women are looking at you or analyzing you and thinking that you are more effort than the payoff is worth. There may be nothing wrong at all with your looks, personal appearance, ect., but something is setting off warning sirens in their heads. I've fallen into this category plenty of times, both in the best of times and the worst. Depends on the girl, I guess.

Fixer-uppers, on the other hand, require some effort (which not all women are prepared to put in, but will for a guy who really fits what they want, or for a woman who realizes you get what you pay for), but are bargains and worth it in the long run. I myself seem to have fallen into this category as well -- a diamond in the rough, but someone spotted my potential, and took the risk.

Of course, the two categories above pre-suppose that there really is a "perfect" category as well, but I'm not so sure that really exists. Everyone has issues, and I think either falls into the "worth it" or "not worth it" category in terms of someone getting to know them or forming a relationship with them. The question is, how are you coming off with your "target demo," and if you were a house, have you checked your paint job and (emotional) plumbing lately?

I know a lot of girls who are "more effort then they're worth" and sad to say-there is a reason why-they're f*****g crazy!
I admit I have standards-not huge ones-but I have to be able to get along with her-and I have turned down hanging out with "insane" girls (I really have no interest in being yelled at 24/7 for going to the mall or asking a cashier for change for a dollar)

I'm not sure if I fall into the "lemon" or "fixer-uppers" categories. I think I am more of a "project incomplete", at this point in time. I keep adding bits, aiming towards completion, but I suspect that this project may never be finished, at least not completely. So, I guess for arguements sake, that "fixer-upper" would fit me better than "lemon". I'm am about 85% there, but that last 15% is the toughest. I will say that my anxiety problems hold me back at least 10%, so I might actually get close to being complete someday.

Many, I would dare say most women seem to think this "perfect" category exists. To be fair, there are plenty of men like that as well, but it seems to be far more prevalent among women from my own observations. This "all-or-nothing" sort of attitude means if you're not "perfect", you are a lemon. There is no "fixer-upper" category - you must be a project complete, not a work in progress (that way you can focus on fixing their problems and handing them the world on a silver platter.) And of course, if they see fit to make a change to you, you have no say-so in the matter (unless you want to get left for someone else after almost nine years like I did).

In any case, if you have problems or weaknesses - of any kind - expect to fix them alone, because most women do not tolerate flaws.

at this point in my life i will take anyone thats disease free, relatively thin, and modestly goodlooking. i cant afford to be picky anymore :*

Why? You're only getting richer as you get older, if anything, you can be extra picky now. It's when you're a teen that you can't be as picky.

I have never wanted "perfect." I've never wanted the guy who seemed like he had it all together because that would put too much pressure on me to have it all together myself, and I sure as heck don't. In my case, I prefer the fixer-upper because then you can grow and learn together. Just my two cents worth.

While it is nice to know some think that way, observation tells me they are the exception, not the rule. The rule seems to be that a man must have it together in every way, shape, and form. If he doesn't, then he's screwed because if he "opens up" about something, he's displaying vulnerability. And vulnerability means weakness - which is not conducive to the process of getting some (because let's face it - for most people today dating is all about getting paid and getting laid, NOT about relationships).

LK, that's the opposite of my experience; those who shutter all their failings and fear inside find themselves instead more alone than those who are comfortable with themselves. The arrogance of those who deem themselves perfect, and the intimidation of those who may seem perfect, are a powerful deterrent despite biological forces that might act to the contrary. I also disagree that dating about sex over connection in most, or even many people - it is a component, but not a pure bottom line for many people. And for those who it is the purpose, I tend to observe them as being more like to have brief encounters yet remain unhappy for long periods. Being aware of flaws is a good first step; accepting them can be helpful, but acquiescing to them is not an attractive quality for many people. The act of effort to continue to grow is of immeasurable value when relating to others in my experience.


M.

So basically, the age-old advice "know your limits" is BS?

No, not entirely - it's just incomplete. Knowing your limits can be a very healthy thing, in that it does save one from pain - but it can also lead to complacency or apathy because one rests on those "limits" instead of exploring them, finding if they can be moved or changed, or even taken out entirely - whether for a moment or permanently. As is the tendency with absolutes and declarative statements - they are prone to be fallible and limited in scope at best.


M.

Then let's take a look at the flipside. It's okay for women to be vunerable, but it's not okay for women to have some real issues. How many times have we read threads that bash Aspie women? Round and round we go. I have to believe for every negative stereotype on either side of the gender fence, there's at least three positives out there. I won't let myself become jaded (that's not to say that you are, I mean generally speaking.)

Speak for yourself... I wouldn't mind a woman that was co-dependent... then at the very least I know she wouldn't leave me for the next guy that came along...

And I would loooooooooove an aspie woman... none of that duplicity BS that NT women (and to be honest, a great deal of NT men) often exhibit, interests that are more often in line with my own (meaning better compatibility), and to top it off I wouldn't have to explain all the changes AS makes to one's psychological profile, since she would already have that knowledge...

Co-dependent can get stifling and claustrophobic very quickly -- Imagine never being able to spend time with your friends again, or having your activities severely curtailed out of her frustration. That's what it's like being with a co-dependent or overly needy person. Goodbye freedom.

Personally, I've never seemed to click with the total Aspie woman. My wife has some Aspie characteristics, as do I, but I can't get along with a 100% Aspie woman, and probably react to them more like NT's do. I find them cold, robotic, socially inappropriate, or just not what I expect feminine behavior to be. Not their fault, and not mine, it's just my perception issue, and clearly my opinion is not the only one that matters. It's too bad too -- some of the Aspie woman I have met have been very attractive in many ways, but I just can't click with them.

I have the feeling that an Aspie/Aspie relationship isn't nearly so compatible by default as it might seem -- you both just might end up pissing the other one off and seeming very cold and emotionally dysfunctional.