"Normal" people are stupid...

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The NT battle cry, "Stop making me think....it makes my head hurt!"

I just feel like there wouldn't have been any point in only saying, "Yeah, I've been pulled over too, except the cops weren't understanding with me," which is pretty much all that my cousin said would've been acceptable. Is it just me, or isn't it safe to assume that I've been pulled over and had bad experiences? Isn't that just the norm? That's like having a conversation about skiing in the mountains and saying, "Yeah, from what I understand those mountains are generally cold in the winter," or, "It takes practice to ski proficiently." Why even open my mouth if I'm going to say something so painfully obvious? Isn't that supposedly our problem in the first place- taking things too literally, and not assuming?

And I think that this is why I "ruin" conversations so frequently. I can't stand the idleness of them, so I try to make them at least somewhat tolerable. If I have to limit my conversations to "It's not raining today," or "The economy's pretty bad," then I might as well start huffing WD-40, because I'm sure that the two activities are comparable in terms of intellectual stimulation. And while I'm at it, I suppose I'll watch "The Real World" (while NOT delirious) and spend the remainder of my waking hours maintaining a Twitter account. Honestly, where do you draw the line?

I mean, I could see if the conversation was going in another direction based on its own momentum, but as Susan told George in Seinfeld (I actually typically side with George btw), "I didn't think it had any momentum." They were just hovering over the "pulling over" thing, and I had to say something or the staleness would've made me anxious.

But anyway, on a broader scale, I now know what I'm supposed to do in order to keep appearances, but I'm still very confused as to why it's worthwhile. It seems like more of a chore than anything else. From what I'm hearing, most people hang out with people whom they have little in common with, and they force themselves to execute small talk, simply so they can feel loved. Or, perhaps it's to avoid looking like loners- this possibility brings Dexter to mind. Is it that all people are like Dexter, and they're ALL just acting in order to look "normal," when in reality NOBODY knows why anything is the way it is?

Frankly, I think I'd rather be "the loner" than the guy who looks like he's popular but is still a loner anyway because his "friends" are nothing more than a charade. I have the upper hand, since I'm not wasting innumerable hours talking about Tiger Woods's personal life.

This whole thing makes me wonder- and I know this has been brought up before- but are we really the "disordered" ones, or is it them? I think something I learned in philosophy class summed it up best: "What's natural is determined by what is most predominant." (Don't know who coined it, or the exact wording.) I have to wonder if we're more evolved than they are. A couple thousand years ago, back when mankind still had to fight off wild animals for survival, I'm sure NT's would've had the advantage (you've gotta have the instincts to predict what the animals are going to try to do and what not), but in industrialized society, they seem rather, dare I say... obsolete. It's no longer a fight for survival in the traditional sense; it's a competition of sheer wits and efficiency for the purpose of achieving technological superiority. Our increasingly complex lifestyles with more mentally-challenging work favor logic over emotion, and perhaps this is why the rate of autism is allegedly on the rise.

Just think: jobs involving math and technology are the most lucrative, and their demand is only projected to keep rising. Stereotypically speaking, this is where autistic people shine. It just so happens that I am majoring in computer science myself. Are we meant to rule the world? (Don't worry NT's, we'll be kind overlords )

I know I just kind of went off on a tangent that may or may not belong in another thread, but I can't help it. (SEE! I did it AGAIN! ) There's actually a lot more I want to say/ask but my head is spinning (I've felt like crap all day) and I can't think straight.

I can so relate to what you're complaining about.

First point is, if your IQ is high, you still probably think of yourself as normal, and other people stupid. The thing is, if there are more of them, then THEY are the norm. They're not stupid, just average. You're just bright, except that you think it's normal. Do you see the difference? It took me and my friend ages to work that out, as we experienced that problem.

The problem is that NTs are the majority. It doesn't make them right, they just get the majority vote. A bit like the way left handed people used to suffer, being not the majority, until people got more enlightened. Don't get me wrong, I still have the problems you describe, and find many NTs unbearably stupid!

It's been pointed out to me that I'm a natural academic, and my very good friend has been dragging me out to cultural and intellectual events. It's a drag going out in the cold, but I make the effort, because I think she's right, and when I am there, be it at a poetry reading, museum talk or listening to a guest speaker at the Royal College of Surgeons, I know that I feel happy, that it feels right, and the people around me feel right. My friend says that it's because I'm in the company of academics and the academically minded.

I don't know if this is of any use to you, but it's made my life a tiny bit better, knowing that I can have little sessions of happiness and fitting in, so hope you can adapt and use it for your own happiness too.
remember having

This reminds me of a psychology paper I read the other week:

http://www.psy.fsu.edu/~ehrlinger/Self_ ... er2008.pdf

Most cases. People are looking for immediate gratification in a conversation. As well they are only thinking of the social endeavors. They do not think about the intellectual endeavors much.
By immediate gratification, I mean to agree with them so they feel satisifed and good about themselves.
By social endeavors and intellectual endeavors.....Most people my age are seeking being popular, fitting into the click, doing what's cool. Where I rather study, talk about intellectual conversations, and watch documentaries.

It isn't that they are dumb. Merely they don't yet understand.

Yeah... I do think of myself as the norm, and them as stupid. I thought I'd accepted the fact that I'm smarter until I began responding to your question (my response included "most people are so stupid"), then I realized I'm still where I've been for a while, somehow. Which is weird. It's like, I know I'm really smart, but I also feel like everyone else is really stupid. But then, where's normal? Maybe there is no "normal." Anyway, I wasn't always like this- for the longest time, I figured everyone else WAS the norm and that I was just some kind of freak. Then I went back to school (jr. college) last spring and, in spite of having virtually no high school education, I got straight A's. (5 courses/17 units; 2 courses were honors, and I'd directly tested into the university-level English course.) I've ranked #1 in 4 out of the 6 courses I've completed, and I ranked #2 in one of them by 0.1%- 98.0% her vs. 97.9% me.

So, yeah, by now I'm well aware that "it's not just me," which is really cool. I'm referring to the way I constantly question things that don't make any sense, then get negative reactions from people who act like I'm crazy or something. It's nice to know that I, contrary to what I've been told my entire life, I'm not the idiot- they are.

It's hard to find a group to fit into because I'm not one of those D&D guys, and they seem to be the norm among the other social outcasts, at least at my weird school. I don't fit into any one category very well. Still trying to figure out how to manage that.

I didn't have time to read the paper (I shouldn't even be on here- whoops), but I read the abstract. I'm not sure what you're trying to imply, but I know that, until April, I was definitely not judging myself accurately. That's because April was when it was pointed out to me for the first time in nearly 2 years (but the billionth time overall) that I had a symptom of Asperger's (talking inappropriately loudly without realizing it). At that point I realized that this wasn't going away (since nobody had said anything in 2 years, I thought I'd taken care of it) and began doing intense research. I took the AQ test in April, saved the scores, then retook it a few nights ago without looking at my older scores.

My perception has definitely changed. My score went up by 9 points (24 to 33), due largely in part to me knowing now how awkward I am socially. (The first time I took the test, I gave myself high marks for social skills. How naïve I was.) Basically, since I've started paying attention to my behavior, I've learned a lot about myself that I hadn't ever noticed before. I hope that's relevant to the contents of the paper.

Cactus Man,

I can relate to you on many points. Smalltalk for its own sake can be a chore at best.

However, it is a skill that when mastered, can be quite useful as a gateway to new information, or to bonding with beautiful people.

Furthermore, I wouldn't go so far as to say that smalltalk and nervous-talk are limited to NTs. Nor would I say that all NTs do it or are interested in it. For example, at my job (I am a counselor at a school), many of the people around me -- and this includes people who are both on and off the spectrum, colleagues and students alike -- engage in "frivolous" conversation during downtime. But like myself, there are many others there, also on and off the spectrum, who couldn't care less about Tiger Woods or yesterday's rainy weather. We would rather pass the time reading or even taking on an extra workload.

I personally would rather not focus on the differences between the way we all pass the time. I find it more relaxing to instead focus on the fact that we all do have something in common: we're at work and we're all just passing the time by doing something we're good at.

I'd say that your conversation was "ruined" through no fault of your own or your cousin's, and it certainly had nothing to do with whether either of you were NT or not. The fact is simply that you are two different people who converse for different reasons.

To elaborate on SilentScream's point, some people are intellectual and some are not. There are many NTs in this world who yearn for intellectual conversation, and find celebrity gossip, etc to be just as excruciating as you or I do. Even some of my NT teenagers have admitted to me that they wish their peers weren't so superficial, or that they find "acceptable" social interaction to be contrived and boring. Teenagers! can you believe it?

I think the trick is to surround yourself with intellectuals, regardless of whether they are on or off the spectrum.

A big mistake that many of us make is to segregate ourselves. All too often I have run into this AS vs NT behavior. It should never be a matter of "us vs them" as in "who's more disabled" or "who's more evolved" or "who is better." These kinds of attitudes only serve to foster the same kind of ignorance that many of us have to work through every single day. We are all unique people who bring our own unique perspectives and skillsets to the world.

It's difficult not to judge people who are different, but it's always important to value their existence and respect that they have different goals or values than we do. Some people believe that bonding with each other is more productive than learning C++ and some people don't. If you find that you are incompatible and don't get along with someone, why not just live and let live?

I'm sure your cousin, as annoying as she may seem to you, is more knowledgeable or more skilled than you in some subject. I'm also sure that if you spend enough time with her then you might learn something new.

Good luck!

I'm the exact same. I'll join a conversation on something small and petty, and rapidly turn it into a debate on the larger subject. A lot of people find it very frustrating, and it seems to alienate them (and consequently me) a lot.. My Dad in particular finds it frustrating how I can be so rational and ponderous on things that he finds very close to him emotionally. We've sparked off each other a lot because of it.

I can relate. I've learned though to find happiness and good conversation whenever possible and atleast attempt to give people the benifit of the doubt the rest of the time. It can be frustrating though that on the rare occasion that someone brings up a topic i'm actually interested in they don't care to expound on it or change the subject before I can get my 2 cents in. Having a good online community of intelectuals to fall back on is a plus. I like www.soulpancake.com personally, for me it makes up for the lack of stimulating conversation offline. Sometimes the conversations there are less than stimulating but the site was created so that people could have a place to discuss topics that are normally considered taboo in polite conversation (things like politics and religion). Things there are rarely 'over discussed' and even then questions tend to come back around every now and then. And like everything else, even soulpancake has it's good days and bad... sometimes all the converstation on their is boring but most days there's atleast one good question to ponder and discuss (and if there isn't then you can always post one).

be beter then normal, be abnormal

Actually, most if not all of my friends frequently expand topics like that, and they're NTs too! Heck, we even frequently debate on politics and religion, even when we're on completely different positions.

Last break though, my older sister accused me of turning everything into an argument. I assert that the better word would be 'debate', but there's not a lot of distinction between the two.

There are some points in that the conversation shouldn't go off-topic. But come on, you can't get much energy in the debate without some expansion, which would help give more meaning to the topic. You can't seriously talk about the weather for 10 minutes straight if you don't expand or get into the nitty-gritty details.

I don't expect everyone to be my friend. I've decided that if they don't like how I debate all the time, that's their problem. No one's going to like everyone.

I think you are right on.

I find NTs boring and then sound arrogant that I even said it. But, it is true for me. I rather be by myself than in what I consider intellectually painful company.

Where to even begin? I think if you radiate intelligence, it unnerves people. And then being quiet creeps people out.

They're not stupid.
They're just biased, prejudiced, stubborn, selfish, mean, indifferent, or uneducated.
Well of course not all of them.

I have a low tolerance for stupidity. NT or not.