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babybird
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05 Dec 2021, 1:46 pm

Why should they. They see you as being rude by being an unwelcome presence so they are shooing you off as a result of your unwelcomeness.

Do you think they ought to be polite to you because you obviously struggle with social norms. If that's what you think then you have a lot to learn.



Jamesy
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05 Dec 2021, 1:49 pm

babybird wrote:
Why should they. They see you as being rude by being an unwelcome presence so they are shooing you off as a result of your unwelcomeness.

Do you think they ought to be polite to you because you obviously struggle with social norms. If that's what you think then you have a lot to learn.



Well yes they should understand and have more sympathy if I struggle to learn social norms.



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05 Dec 2021, 1:54 pm

Look, people who are on a night out with friends don't want to spend time having sympathy for you. They may have responsibilities in their own lives where they have to take care of children, elderly parents etc. They don't go on a night out to have to then have sympathy for you. You are not their responsibility.



funeralxempire
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05 Dec 2021, 1:55 pm

Jamesy wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Jamesy wrote:
Well my autism makes it hard to understand boundries so it's not my all my fault. Stop criticising me for things I can't help.


It's not as though this is a brand new issue you don't understand. You've posted about how your interactions at the bar have been going for ages and often describe people being very blunt with you when establishing their boundaries.

When the other people are that clear it's not reasonable to insist the problem is entirely with a failure to understand boundaries. It's one thing to make that claim when they've been ambiguous but you've described people being so explicitly clear that it's hard to believe that misunderstanding is still a factor.

You owe both yourself and those other people to stop harassing them. You owe yourself new strategies for dealing with feeling lonely because subjecting yourself to more blunt rejection is only hurting you. You owe those other people enough respect to stop bothering them when they've made it clear they don't want to interact or being friends.



They also should show more respect and not be so hostile as well. They could be more polite about it at least.


Generally speaking if an interloper fails to understand the message that they're not invited after it's been communicated politely people escalate to being more forceful.

How polite do you expect people to be when they've repeatedly had to communicate to another that their presence is unwanted and unwelcome? They're going to become increasingly frustrated and it's unreasonable for you to expect them to accommodate your needs and feelings when you're consistently oblivious to theirs.


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Jamesy
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05 Dec 2021, 1:58 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Jamesy wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Jamesy wrote:
Well my autism makes it hard to understand boundries so it's not my all my fault. Stop criticising me for things I can't help.


It's not as though this is a brand new issue you don't understand. You've posted about how your interactions at the bar have been going for ages and often describe people being very blunt with you when establishing their boundaries.

When the other people are that clear it's not reasonable to insist the problem is entirely with a failure to understand boundaries. It's one thing to make that claim when they've been ambiguous but you've described people being so explicitly clear that it's hard to believe that misunderstanding is still a factor.

You owe both yourself and those other people to stop harassing them. You owe yourself new strategies for dealing with feeling lonely because subjecting yourself to more blunt rejection is only hurting you. You owe those other people enough respect to stop bothering them when they've made it clear they don't want to interact or being friends.



They also should show more respect and not be so hostile as well. They could be more polite about it at least.


Generally speaking if an interloper fails to understand the message that they're not invited after it's been communicated politely people escalate to being more forceful.

How polite do you expect people to be when they've repeatedly had to communicate to another that their presence is unwanted and unwelcome? They're going to become increasingly frustrated and it's unreasonable for you to expect them to accommodate your needs and feelings when you're consistently oblivious to theirs.



Yes you are right :oops:



funeralxempire
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05 Dec 2021, 2:13 pm

My intention isn't to be cruel or to cause you upset, I understand that this experience is painful and that you're not trying to be malicious to other people, you're desperately seeking pleasant social interactions and struggling with how poorly they go for you.

I'm blunt about trying to explain the other perspective because obviously you get how you feel about it but without getting how the others involved feel it's hard to understand why they tend to become harsh and forceful and that makes it easy to understand things as though you're being victimized instead of accepting that the other people have legit reasons for acting the way they do, even if the way they're acting isn't great.

I think it's well established that the bar scene isn't doing you any favours and that it's not always a great place to find friends because often most of the people there are with the friends they already have and they're not looking to meet more people on those nights.

Personally I'd suggest another approach besides the bar, it hurts you, it upsets others and it doesn't seem like you're getting different outcomes now compared to ages ago. If you still want to keep going there you'll need to try other strategies because so far the ones you've tried haven't gone well, but the social issues associated with autism might make that harder for you (or me) than average.


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Jamesy
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05 Dec 2021, 3:45 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
My intention isn't to be cruel or to cause you upset, I understand that this experience is painful and that you're not trying to be malicious to other people, you're desperately seeking pleasant social interactions and struggling with how poorly they go for you.

I'm blunt about trying to explain the other perspective because obviously you get how you feel about it but without getting how the others involved feel it's hard to understand why they tend to become harsh and forceful and that makes it easy to understand things as though you're being victimized instead of accepting that the other people have legit reasons for acting the way they do, even if the way they're acting isn't great.

I think it's well established that the bar scene isn't doing you any favours and that it's not always a great place to find friends because often most of the people there are with the friends they already have and they're not looking to meet more people on those nights.

Personally I'd suggest another approach besides the bar, it hurts you, it upsets others and it doesn't seem like you're getting different outcomes now compared to ages ago. If you still want to keep going there you'll need to try other strategies because so far the ones you've tried haven't gone well, but the social issues associated with autism might make that harder for you (or me) than average.




Tonight I have thinking about cutting down going out (not cut it out entirely though) but maybe go out once a week instead of twice a week.



funeralxempire
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05 Dec 2021, 4:04 pm

Jamesy wrote:
Tonight I have thinking about cutting down going out (not cut it out entirely though) but maybe go out once a week instead of twice a week.


The way alcohol impacts inhibitions might be especially bad for folks who also struggle with social awareness and knowing how to interact. It won't fix those problems but it will make one less likely to consider them before acting, so stuff that doesn't involve drinking might be better.

I'd also maybe consider a different place to drink, if you're going to still engage in it. Sometimes different places attract different audiences and you might mesh better at another one.


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05 Dec 2021, 5:36 pm

Quote:
Well my autism makes it hard to understand boundries so it's not my all my fault. Stop criticising me for things I can't help.


I think there's a lot of criticism going on in this thread. All that criticism is correct, but I think it should be balanced with some empathy.

I have had a similar experience to you in my 20s, because people were very tolerant of me in high school, it was shocking to go to college and experience the opposite.

So you can think of it another way if you want. Why are you bothering with these people in the first place? It's better to get into a habit, try to make friends here, if they're rejecting me, well they're jerks, so I need to move on quickly to the next group of people.

Don't just try to socialize with people at a bar. If you want to drink, there are meetup groups where you may find peeps who both drink and share your interests. And if these new people are jerks, just find another meetup group. You'll be ok eventually.



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05 Dec 2021, 5:39 pm

Also try making friends with the dudes in these groups instead of women. Women are automatically suspicious of guys they don't know.



Jamesy
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05 Dec 2021, 5:58 pm

OutUponATreeBranch wrote:
Also try making friends with the dudes in these groups instead of women. Women are automatically suspicious of guys they don't know.



Why do women get suspicious?



theprisoner
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05 Dec 2021, 6:03 pm

^ Because not everybody is as innocent as you are. The world is a dangerous place.


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05 Dec 2021, 7:20 pm

Jamesy wrote:
Why do women get suspicious?

Because most men are physically stronger than most women. Hence women naturally tend to be wary of strangers, by default.


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05 Dec 2021, 9:42 pm

Jamesy wrote:
They also should show more respect and not be so hostile as well. They could be more polite about it at least.
Respect for someone who uses autism as an excuse for not respecting their boundaries? Respect for someone who has the reputation of a stalker? Respect for someone who "lols" at the disturbances he causes?

What have you ever done to deserve their respect?

That they are already being polite enough not to beat the snot out of you for behaving rudely toward them is already a point in their favor.



Jamesy
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05 Dec 2021, 10:34 pm

I am starting to think this Fnord guy is a troll :roll:


That said understand though that from his point of view he's very protective of women.



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06 Dec 2021, 9:26 am

Jamesy wrote:
I am starting to think this Fnord guy is a troll.  That said understand though that from his point of view he's very protective of women.
Are you equating the support of women's rights with trollery?

Or are you simply attacking the messenger because you cannot refute the message?