Being ignored, dismissed, and disrespected by other people.

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mom2bzy
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14 Oct 2011, 1:57 pm

Social norms are culturally and historically based, that's why I hate them.



Fnord
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14 Oct 2011, 2:39 pm

ialdabaoth wrote:
... I know all about the "geek social fallacies". And I'm not saying that anyone is owed friends, attention, or common human empathy. I'm just asking what you expect people to do when they don't get any?

I expect them to go away. Quietly. There may be a reason why I don't want to give them friendship or attention, or to play their cute little empathy games. I may have my own issues to deal with at the moment, or I may be trying to accomplish something, and setting aside my own needs and interests for those of some whiny, complaining, emo type is simply out of the question.


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14 Oct 2011, 2:50 pm

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I find a lot of times people make such claims when in reality, they are failing to take the initiative to interact with others and assert their presence, and have unrealistic expectations concerning the ability of others to gauge boundaries. You don't wear a big sign that says "Come talk to me!"

Generally, NT's rely heavily on non-verbal body language to determine how to interact with another individual, and many people on the spectrum inadvertently communicate that they are not interested in interacting. They do this by keeping quite in the presence of conversations, or assuming a passive role. They are not "heard" or have what they say dismissed when they do speak because they may speak quietly, stammer, or state things in a way that communicate they are not very confident in what they say. NT's figure that if you are not confident in what you say, then why should they be?

Of the more outgoing people on the spectrum, frequently they will be dismissed because they state things out of context to which the person doesn't know how to reply, or they will appear to be talking to themselves when they do state things.

Bingo. I think this is true in myself and also in my son. I agree that overcompensating doesn't come off well. I'm not sure what it is about my body language that is putting off these vibes. It seems the only vibes I give off that attract people to me are the ones that attract the users.


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icyfire4w5
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16 Oct 2011, 1:13 am

To autisticstar: Well, my problem is identical to yours. :) Even though some sages say that those who respect others will earn respect, people tend to shun me because I usually give off "wrong" signals. :( Recently, I read an article about why some politicians fail to garner the respect that other politicians get. Interviewees said that these politicians seem too earnest to please people that their excessive earnestness turn people off. They smile too much and their postures might be too stiff. According to the journalist, stiff politicians are anxious politicians. (I would like to add that NTs enjoy preying upon anxiety.) The journalist wrote that even if these politicians had gone through image makeovers, they would remain unpopular (and unrespected) unless they get rid of their anxiety.



ialdabaoth
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16 Oct 2011, 2:05 pm

Fnord wrote:
ialdabaoth wrote:
... I know all about the "geek social fallacies". And I'm not saying that anyone is owed friends, attention, or common human empathy. I'm just asking what you expect people to do when they don't get any?

I expect them to go away. Quietly. There may be a reason why I don't want to give them friendship or attention, or to play their cute little empathy games. I may have my own issues to deal with at the moment, or I may be trying to accomplish something, and setting aside my own needs and interests for those of some whiny, complaining, emo type is simply out of the question.


Perhaps I miscommunicated. I don't mean, what do you expect people to do when they don't get any from you. I mean, what do you expect people to do when they don't get any anywhere?



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17 Oct 2011, 1:07 am

Yeah this happens to me to. People think Im purposely rude or there's something always wrong with me. Im slowly starting to notice all the things my natural straight face says to people because I work at the supermarket. A women thought she offended me earlier today when I just noded in response to what she said. I actually didnt hear her.



Dark_Lord_2008
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17 Oct 2011, 1:19 am

The ignorant people should back off and stop discriminating and mistreating people with Aspergers. Aspergers go through too much problems in their lives and they do not need ignorant jerks making their lives more difficult.



Last edited by Dark_Lord_2008 on 17 Oct 2011, 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ialdabaoth
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17 Oct 2011, 9:22 pm

Dark_Lord_2008 wrote:
The ignorant people should back off and stop discriminating and mistreating people with Aspergers. Aspergers can through too much problems in their lives and they do not need ignorant jerks making their lives more difficult.


Why should they? What's in it for them?



Dark_Lord_2008
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17 Oct 2011, 11:38 pm

ialdabaoth wrote:
Dark_Lord_2008 wrote:
The ignorant people should back off and stop discriminating and mistreating people with Aspergers. Aspergers can through too much problems in their lives and they do not need ignorant jerks making their lives more difficult.


Why should they? What's in it for them?


I am an aggressive person with Aspegers. Anyone says the wrong thing to me, I threaten them or intimidate them with abuse and insults. How dare they pick on me/provoke me due to my Aspergers? I am big and strong enough to defend myself from cowardly bullies.



ialdabaoth
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18 Oct 2011, 10:27 am

Dark_Lord_2008 wrote:
ialdabaoth wrote:
Dark_Lord_2008 wrote:
The ignorant people should back off and stop discriminating and mistreating people with Aspergers. Aspergers can through too much problems in their lives and they do not need ignorant jerks making their lives more difficult.


Why should they? What's in it for them?


I am an aggressive person with Aspegers. Anyone says the wrong thing to me, I threaten them or intimidate them with abuse and insults. How dare they pick on me/provoke me due to my Aspergers? I am big and strong enough to defend myself from cowardly bullies.


Then why shouldn't they just threaten you right back, and use 'gang up' tactics to neutralize your threat with superior numbers until an authority figure can come - at which point they utilize the state's monopoly on violence to have you removed?



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18 Oct 2011, 11:24 am

This has happened to me countless times. I've been shunned, embarrassed, made fun of, humiliated, disrespected, and talked down to by both male and female throughout my life. It's just makes me mad thinking about it.

They should, with all the problems and mental deficiencies I have, try to help and be more friendly to me.


Instead, because I'm so stupid and slow, they try to take advantage of me and only hang around me for amusement.

It just makes me sick that some people here are trying to defend this.



ialdabaoth
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18 Oct 2011, 12:39 pm

MR20 wrote:
This has happened to me countless times. I've been shunned, embarrassed, made fun of, humiliated, disrespected, and talked down to by both male and female throughout my life. It's just makes me mad thinking about it.

They should, with all the problems and mental deficiencies I have, try to help and be more friendly to me.


Instead, because I'm so stupid and slow, they try to take advantage of me and only hang around me for amusement.

It just makes me sick that some people here are trying to defend this.


Explaining and defending are two very different things.



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18 Oct 2011, 2:49 pm

ialdabaoth wrote:
MR20 wrote:
This has happened to me countless times. I've been shunned, embarrassed, made fun of, humiliated, disrespected, and talked down to by both male and female throughout my life. It's just makes me mad thinking about it.

They should, with all the problems and mental deficiencies I have, try to help and be more friendly to me.


Instead, because I'm so stupid and slow, they try to take advantage of me and only hang around me for amusement.

It just makes me sick that some people here are trying to defend this.


Explaining and defending are two very different things.



What about excusing?



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18 Oct 2011, 3:13 pm

MR20 wrote:
ialdabaoth wrote:
MR20 wrote:
This has happened to me countless times. I've been shunned, embarrassed, made fun of, humiliated, disrespected, and talked down to by both male and female throughout my life. It's just makes me mad thinking about it. They should, with all the problems and mental deficiencies I have, try to help and be more friendly to me. Instead, because I'm so stupid and slow, they try to take advantage of me and only hang around me for amusement. It just makes me sick that some people here are trying to defend this.
Explaining and defending are two very different things.
What about excusing?

That's a third thing.

Explaining is imparting understanding. Understanding something does not mean that you agree with it, or that you approve of it.

I predict a reply similar to: "Oh see how that proves once again how totally pathetic I am as a human being."


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ialdabaoth
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18 Oct 2011, 11:41 pm

I'll try again.

People will not simply 'back off' from someone who weirds them out, because they see no reason to. In fact, they feel justified in ganging up on you, and forcing you to conform - one way or another - to a role that they find comprehensible. And if you cannot present a positive role that they find comprehensible, they will use every bit of power they have access to to push you into a negative one, because you operating in a socially incomprehensible role is precisely as grating to an NT mind as scratchy clothes, loud buzzing noises or intense staring is to certain AS minds.

Is this right? That depends on your framework of 'right' and 'wrong'. It's certainly destructive to you, and dismissive of your needs and uniqueness. But, from their perspective, so what? They never consented for you to come into the world, and they have been given no particular reason to treat you like a human being, so why would they?

Saying "I really wish humans would be less shallow and vicious" when you're AS is like saying "I really wish I had gills" when you're drowning underwater.

Put another way: Stop treating other peoples' social behaviors as things they have any control over, and start treating them like a force of nature. They can't help being cruel any more than you can help being socially misunderstood. You are both simply responding to stimulus the way your brain is naturally wired to, and you will both need to learn to adapt that wiring if you expect to get along.

Now, they provide a great impetus for you to want to get along, simply due to the fact that if you don't try, your life will likely be miserable. On the other hand, you have no such power over their lives. So what can you do to the situation to change that?

(hint: It doesn't involve threat-displays or attempts to seize power; there are far, far too many of them for that, and they've been collectively playing this game for far longer than you can.)

What ya got?



Dark_Lord_2008
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19 Oct 2011, 1:13 am

Aspies should ignore them and mistreat the jerks by being rude, abrupt, aggressive and condescending towards them. AS person can simply walk away and shout at the jerks.

Anyway the views/opinions of these jerks simply do not matter to to a person with Aspergers. The only person that matters is your own view/opinion. Aspies need to stand up for themselves and fight back against the cowards who are oppressing them. Aspies need to stand up for freedom, justice and liberty.

How dare these corwards get away with picking on Aspies for no reason. Aspies can get their own Aspie friends and turn to the authorities to take action against the offenders. In last resort an Aspie will take the law into his own hands and get revenge against his tormentors.

Shout, scream, throw a tantrum and act like a child. Are ways a person deals with cowards giving them a hard time for no reason. A person with Aspergers is usually the victim. The cowardly bullies are usually the offenders/perpetrators of hate crime.

Hating against Aspergers is a hate crime.