31 Mar 2012, 6:10 am
CloudLayer wrote:
Hi Luska. I know what you mean. I don't think I've ever consciously realized there was a difference between people who are nice to you and people who are your friend. Best friend is much more clear, I don't consider someone my best friend unless it's been explicitly agreed by both parties that that is what it's considered. But friend, I consider someone who is nice to me my friend (although I never feel comfortable assuming they think of me the same way), because niceness if it's real at all is pervasive, if you'd do something for someone at one time you'd do it at another time... fair-weather niceness isn't niceness it's politeness which does not always come off as nice (cause of obviously indifferent tone of voice etc.).
I really think that this is because I'm thinking as if everybody I meet is part of a small tribe, and you treat everyone in a small tribe the same way you would your family, i.e. you have instant familial love for them and feel responsible to them and whatnot. Same as in a church group etc. I think that my Aspie mind is unable to accept inconsistencies and if you grow up being told you're part of a group that shares familial love, but if people on the other side of your family are not in this group but are still your family, and not everyone in the group is in your family, you have to think what the common denominator is that makes it so you should be loyal to someone and the only common denominator is "people", unqualified. Of course no human being in gigantic modern society can be loyal to all the humans they meet, there are too many of them working for different conflicting purposes, but that is the unattainable goal I set for myself that leads to my complete social ruin. It is unreasonable to expect that everyone you meet will treat you like a family member. Even if you weed out the ones who are mean to you from the start if you start being friends with someone who seems nice but then acts in ways at odds to your well-being, and you're still think they're your friend and think there's some bond loyalty between you, that creates a problem. Goddamnit. So many of the ways I behave work against me because I arrived at them using twisted logic that leads me to behave in ways that are often completely unworkable in society as is actually operates. It's not even like one way is morally better than another, they all have their own limitations on providing happiness for people (tribal model is limited in quantity of people that can benefit, modern-mainstream-society model is limited in quality of benefit to each person) and ultimately lead to social discord/dissolution/nobody benefitting if followed inappropriately.
I really think that this is because I'm thinking as if everybody I meet is part of a small tribe, and you treat everyone in a small tribe the same way you would your family, i.e. you have instant familial love for them and feel responsible to them and whatnot. Same as in a church group etc. I think that my Aspie mind is unable to accept inconsistencies and if you grow up being told you're part of a group that shares familial love, but if people on the other side of your family are not in this group but are still your family, and not everyone in the group is in your family, you have to think what the common denominator is that makes it so you should be loyal to someone and the only common denominator is "people", unqualified. Of course no human being in gigantic modern society can be loyal to all the humans they meet, there are too many of them working for different conflicting purposes, but that is the unattainable goal I set for myself that leads to my complete social ruin. It is unreasonable to expect that everyone you meet will treat you like a family member. Even if you weed out the ones who are mean to you from the start if you start being friends with someone who seems nice but then acts in ways at odds to your well-being, and you're still think they're your friend and think there's some bond loyalty between you, that creates a problem. Goddamnit. So many of the ways I behave work against me because I arrived at them using twisted logic that leads me to behave in ways that are often completely unworkable in society as is actually operates. It's not even like one way is morally better than another, they all have their own limitations on providing happiness for people (tribal model is limited in quantity of people that can benefit, modern-mainstream-society model is limited in quality of benefit to each person) and ultimately lead to social discord/dissolution/nobody benefitting if followed inappropriately.
Wow!
:amazed:
I have never heard/seen such a succinct expression of the dilemma we all deal with on a daily basis as people on the spectrum!
Kudos
_________________
Be kinder than necessary for everyone is fighting some kind of battle
-Jaleb
01 Apr 2012, 9:28 pm
syzygyish wrote:
CloudLayer wrote:
Hi Luska. I know what you mean. I don't think I've ever consciously realized there was a difference between people who are nice to you and people who are your friend. Best friend is much more clear, I don't consider someone my best friend unless it's been explicitly agreed by both parties that that is what it's considered. But friend, I consider someone who is nice to me my friend (although I never feel comfortable assuming they think of me the same way), because niceness if it's real at all is pervasive, if you'd do something for someone at one time you'd do it at another time... fair-weather niceness isn't niceness it's politeness which does not always come off as nice (cause of obviously indifferent tone of voice etc.).
I really think that this is because I'm thinking as if everybody I meet is part of a small tribe, and you treat everyone in a small tribe the same way you would your family, i.e. you have instant familial love for them and feel responsible to them and whatnot. Same as in a church group etc. I think that my Aspie mind is unable to accept inconsistencies and if you grow up being told you're part of a group that shares familial love, but if people on the other side of your family are not in this group but are still your family, and not everyone in the group is in your family, you have to think what the common denominator is that makes it so you should be loyal to someone and the only common denominator is "people", unqualified. Of course no human being in gigantic modern society can be loyal to all the humans they meet, there are too many of them working for different conflicting purposes, but that is the unattainable goal I set for myself that leads to my complete social ruin. It is unreasonable to expect that everyone you meet will treat you like a family member. Even if you weed out the ones who are mean to you from the start if you start being friends with someone who seems nice but then acts in ways at odds to your well-being, and you're still think they're your friend and think there's some bond loyalty between you, that creates a problem. Goddamnit. So many of the ways I behave work against me because I arrived at them using twisted logic that leads me to behave in ways that are often completely unworkable in society as is actually operates. It's not even like one way is morally better than another, they all have their own limitations on providing happiness for people (tribal model is limited in quantity of people that can benefit, modern-mainstream-society model is limited in quality of benefit to each person) and ultimately lead to social discord/dissolution/nobody benefitting if followed inappropriately.
I really think that this is because I'm thinking as if everybody I meet is part of a small tribe, and you treat everyone in a small tribe the same way you would your family, i.e. you have instant familial love for them and feel responsible to them and whatnot. Same as in a church group etc. I think that my Aspie mind is unable to accept inconsistencies and if you grow up being told you're part of a group that shares familial love, but if people on the other side of your family are not in this group but are still your family, and not everyone in the group is in your family, you have to think what the common denominator is that makes it so you should be loyal to someone and the only common denominator is "people", unqualified. Of course no human being in gigantic modern society can be loyal to all the humans they meet, there are too many of them working for different conflicting purposes, but that is the unattainable goal I set for myself that leads to my complete social ruin. It is unreasonable to expect that everyone you meet will treat you like a family member. Even if you weed out the ones who are mean to you from the start if you start being friends with someone who seems nice but then acts in ways at odds to your well-being, and you're still think they're your friend and think there's some bond loyalty between you, that creates a problem. Goddamnit. So many of the ways I behave work against me because I arrived at them using twisted logic that leads me to behave in ways that are often completely unworkable in society as is actually operates. It's not even like one way is morally better than another, they all have their own limitations on providing happiness for people (tribal model is limited in quantity of people that can benefit, modern-mainstream-society model is limited in quality of benefit to each person) and ultimately lead to social discord/dissolution/nobody benefitting if followed inappropriately.
Wow!
:amazed:
I have never heard/seen such a succinct expression of the dilemma we all deal with on a daily basis as people on the spectrum!
Kudos
Thanks syzygyish, this cheered me up, I was starting to doubt my perception of things a bit for various reasons Glad you can relate.
