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Sex and Friends

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Tyri0n
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04 Mar 2013, 10:47 am

Toy_Soldier wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
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If you want to avoid unwanted physical relationships its best to not develop a male friendship unless you also wish for a relationship with that person that could develop into something more. Its ok to maintain male aquaintences but you have to keep them at a obvious distance, and not see them individually, but only in group/work settings, etc.


This is not realistic advice for most people here. It's a very common aspie trait to be incapable of same-gender friendships altogether. For many people, it's a choice between having opposite-gender friends and having no friends.

I think picking people who are not sexually aggressive and/or are out of your league for friends is much better advice. Or, if you're a straight woman, then gay friends are probably perfect, or for a straight man, lesbians are perfect. My best friend for many years was lesbian.


Toy_Soldier wrote:
I am coming from a hetero perspective btw, but would think the same applies to all as far as being aware of someones attraction to you and how to manage it.


Sure, you made that one caveat at the end. But I think generally your advice of not trying to make friends of the opposite gender is unrealistic as far as aspies go.

most of the rest of us (maybe applies to the OP too, no idea) are probably never going to make friends of the same gender. Ever. So it's a choice between managing opposite-gender friends and having no friends.



mikassyna
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04 Mar 2013, 11:50 am

I want to tell you that you are not alone. I, too, had the same problems as a young woman. It did not help that I was also sexually abused when I was 13. In my late teens to late 20's I vacillated between being "uptight" to being "too loose" because I couldn't figure out the rules of how to be. I was desperate for friendships and relationships, but was unsuccessful. I could not figure out what made other people so special that they had best friends and committed intimate relationships and I didn't. I tried to make my self more intelligent, more talented, more interesting, but to no avail. It was immensely frustrating.

I did wind up having lots of guy friends for a long time. They were intrigued by me but yes, 99% had ulterior motives. Many times I was too gullible and desperate to weed out the bad apples. I got myself into some very precarious predicaments with people I thought I could trust, some of them who were married. Women stayed away from me like the plague because they thought I was just out to steal their boyfriends. And some of the women "friends" I had--I found out years later--were bi or also had ulterior motives that I had not been aware of at the time. As I got older I managed to become friends with some of the wives of the guys that I hung out with, but as soon as the involvement with said guys went nowhere those other "friendships" evaporated as well. I recently lost 2 girl friends because of something I still am trying to figure out what I did, but they got offended by me and I only found out about it through someone else 2 years later. So, I can totally relate. I have one good friend from work that I've known for about 15 years but we are not best friends (I managed to inadvertently offend her best friend LOL). I recently reconnected with another friend back from my junior high school days (over 25 years ago) but it's not like I am too close with her anymore. I have had "special interest" friends but they often get preoccupied with other things in their life so we drift apart. I guess even at my age it is a struggle. However I do have my husband now and sometimes he seems like an alien to me. I know he says he loves me but part of me I guess doesn't understand how or why he does.



Toy_Soldier
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04 Mar 2013, 12:23 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
Sure, you made that one caveat at the end. But I think generally your advice of not trying to make friends of the opposite gender is unrealistic as far as aspies go.

most of the rest of us (maybe applies to the OP too, no idea) are probably never going to make friends of the same gender. Ever. So it's a choice between managing opposite-gender friends and having no friends.


I do not agree that Aspies are probably never going to make friends of the same gender. But friend I think you are veering off-topic and my post was tailored to the OP. So I decline to continue this side debate.



Tyri0n
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04 Mar 2013, 12:31 pm

Toy_Soldier wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
Sure, you made that one caveat at the end. But I think generally your advice of not trying to make friends of the opposite gender is unrealistic as far as aspies go.

most of the rest of us (maybe applies to the OP too, no idea) are probably never going to make friends of the same gender. Ever. So it's a choice between managing opposite-gender friends and having no friends.


I do not agree that Aspies are probably never going to make friends of the same gender. But friend I think you are veering off-topic and my post was tailored to the OP. So I decline to continue this side debate.


No, it's not off-topic. I was just pointing out it was unrealistic advice for someone in the OP's situation. I didn't say all aspies. I said many. If someone gave advice like that to me, advice that presumes the existence of social options which I don't have, I'd feel really bad and worthless. The OP may or may not feel the same way.

And the OP specifically said in her post that being friends with women just doesn't happen to her. She said:
Quote:
I do not have any female friends, and when I am around women I am very, very uncomfortable.


If she feels uncomfortable around the same gender, as do many aspies, giving advice to avoid opposite-gender friendships is akin to saying that one should just curl up in her or his room and die alone. My own experience and those of many on this board indicate that same-gender friendships are not an option for many people, so giving advice to avoid opposite-gender friendships almost sounds cruel.

It's better to give advice on how to select and weed out opposite-gender friends who have ulterior motives than to advise not focusing on them at all.



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06 Mar 2013, 11:56 am

Hello! I completely understand how you feel. For a long time, I literally had no one to talk to. The people that I DO talk to are men that I use. They generally only want to have sex with me. So, what I do is I use them to subside some of my loneliness by having them listen to me talk a lot (it's not REAL listening *sigh*), and in return, I tend to compliment them to bring up their self esteem. Not all of them are bad men at all, and most of them get a good self esteem boost and they end up in a relationship! But, that is just a sucky relationship. It's not a *real* friend. I, too, feel uncomfortable around women. I kind of blur gender roles, and some women think I'm too masculine. Others are way too much drama (I don't entirely mind drama, but I mean the ones that are like my mother...and that's a bad thing). But most people tend to be people who use me as a therapist and then never want to support me or hang out with me. It's lonely. I'm also pretty open minded and I found it hard, for some reason, to find male friends that do not make some sort of sexist/racist/homophobic comments that upset me. *Sigh*

But.... 8) ...... If you are willing, you can PM me. I actually live in LA county. I actually just want someone to *be* around sometimes. Maybe someone to listen to me, and I also like to listen to people. I do not even care if I just sit there and watch TV with someone 2 feet apart, I enjoy being next to people. I kind of have bad anxiety problems, anyways, so it's not a big deal. I'm very introverted a lot, but I've always wanted a woman to be friends with and do things with. I can be sensitive sometimes, but I'm pretty reasonable and extremely understanding. I've been through a lot in my life, so I make it a goal not to upset people. So, let me know. :]



Mitrovah
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06 Mar 2013, 6:54 pm

Toy_Soldier wrote:
ypestisflea wrote:
I am a 20 something year old female who cannot seem to maintain any functional long-term relationships (sexual and/or non-sexual). I rely very heavily on my sex-appeal to make "friends". The "friends" I have currently are predominantly men (surprise, surprise) that I sleep with, have slept with, or that have some sort of vested interest in me sexually. I would really like to be able to have friends who I am not involved with sexually, but I am just clueless. I do not have any female friends, and when I am around women I am very, very uncomfortable. Historically, when I have made attempts to reach out to other women, I have very quickly been shut down. The only female friends I have had were equally damaged if not more damaged than myself (one was a con-artist), and even that is a rarity. I guess I take what I can get. It feels like my attempts to "reach out" to others socially is an honest one, even if I often find myself resorting to sex in a desperate attempt to make a connection with another person. I am sure I come off as a "crazy whore" to most who have been intimate with me. The realization that I actually do not have any "friends", and that I may not ever be able to form meaningful relationships is agonizing. I am very lonely, always have been, and it seems that no matter what I do, my interactions with people always leave me feeling unfulfilled and ultimately alienated. Isolating myself is sometimes the easiest course of action, not because I like being alone, but because it is, well, simply less painful. Sometimes being around people only makes me feel more alone. I remember growing up and having lots of cats.. Cuddling them...being present with them...it just never felt like enough. I distinctly remember wanting to "absorb" them. Maybe then I wouldn't feel this way. Even here, I don't entirely feel like I "belong". :roll: I really do feel like I am on the wrong planet.


This is what I have found in general to true.

It is very rare/difficult for a man to be just friends with a woman if they find them attractive. They may want to just be friends, but sooner or later they will want more then that.

If you want to avoid unwanted physical relationships its best to not develop a male friendship unless you also wish for a relationship with that person that could develop into something more. Its ok to maintain male aquaintences but you have to keep them at a obvious distance, and not see them individually, but only in group/work settings, etc.

Friends will usually come from the pool of people who are not attracted to you physically. There might be a few men like that (very few) and more likely women. These are people who are attracted to your personality and unique qualities, the person you really are. You have to use your perceptions to tell if someone is attracted to you physically or not. Once you sense that it is time to make a choice, to persue it or abruptly shift away from them. There is no real way to be nice about it, so just make it swift and decisive.

The usual ingredients for long term friendship, for me, has been a common interest to persue together and similiarity in personnal views. I found that being Aspie-odd was not the make-or-break aspect of getting along. It was having similiar feelings about life and its various positions (ie, liberal or conservative, religious or atheist, etc).

I am coming from a hetero perspective btw, but would think the same applies to all as far as being aware of someones attraction to you and how to manage it.


despite the old "When Harry Met Sally" dogma of male female relationships, i think it is possible, when people are looking for dates, that is precisely the goal a romantic nothing else yes not always about sex but the very primal mating emotional partner, when you are looking for a friend to hang out with, socialize who you may connect with on some emotional level but not to that level. I thought over this paradox and realized it is one of those aspects of human nature no matter how long you listen to lectures on evolutionary psychology can not be fully deconstructed. people have friends and people have husbands and wives precisely because they are different roles for different human emotional needs. man is a social but not strictly a sexual polygamist. the reasons i think guys are at unease about women having male friends unless he is gay is the old competitive instinct and because yes this is stereotyping women do, not only when it comes to personal relationships, have a more flexible or conciliatory view point of things were as males do tend to take a hard stance "either it this or way or the highway mentality.' things only go farther then the friend zone when whether it be unconscious or not want it to be more than a friendship.The old freudian maxim is :" there are no such things as accidents"