How far can Aspies go in learning social skills?

Post Reply New Topic

Ok, I see what you're saying. Well, then, in that case, no I haven't learned it.

How far can AS people, in general, go in learning social skills and what limits what they can learn?
.........................................................

For my own reference, above I have posted Kensho's original question from the beginning of this thread.

You know what, I think I see your point. I hadn't thought of that before. Behavioral modification is exactly how I would describe my "acting" normal. I don't understand them or why they do things, it is merely 30 years of noticing what gets a good reaction and what doesn't. I call it memorization, really. NTs don't believe it's possible to memorize social behavior, but I can memorize a lot more than they can, so, ya, I have.

So, what would you call it, shadexiii, if I can "fake" it BECAUSE of behavioral modification?

I guess that wouldn't be learned NT-ism. I can see that. But, as I called it in my first post on this thread, it is Learned-Acting-like-an-NT.

So, let me ask Kensho.... which was your question? Did you want to know how much we can be behaviorally modified to act like an NT when necessary, or did you want to know how much we actually learn and understand and accurately create NT behavior?

I think about it constantly, I have to premeditate upcoming social events for hours, sometimes days for multi-person things.

Think, think, think. It's hard, it's a lot of work, and no, there's nothing natural about it.

I had a lady come over today at 2pm, who needed to ask me about homeschooling, and it completely ruined my morning just knowing it was coming. I was so uncomfortable with the thought that I had to act, I almost called it off.

So, I heavily occupied myself, and had some caffeine and st.john's wort for mood, and tried to not make that phone call. When she came, I taught her everything she needed to know, and took good care of her kids, but I was thoroughly uncomfortable during the whole event. It was lots of work, and I had to even be direct a few times about why did said something, because the truth was I didn't understand anything she was saying. I have no idea if the information I gave her was what she wanted, so I was actually thinking of writing a blog tomorrow to answer her questions, which I wrote down, because I was so confused during the event that I have no idea if I said the right things. Nor was I able to keep track of my facial expressions, body positions, or what my kids were doing at the time, because I was so busy watching what she was saying.

Afterwards, I felt very uncomfortable and haven't been able to listen to my kids' stories the whole day since she left. And, this is a good friend who I've known for 5 years.

It's rough faking, but it's nice knowing that I didn't make it her problem.

Oh no, I didn't think you meant it as negative. As per my first entry on this thread, I learned about three years ago that acting is a very positive thing for us. I'm glad I realized that.

I thought your questions were a good differenciation between someone with some Aspie symptoms, and a full real Aspie. Because a full real Aspie couldn't, by definintion, "learn" actual natural NT behavior. It's a good definition for those who might be in the mid-region halfway between Aspie and NT, such as my husband. My husband Brian displays some very Aspie qualities, but not all, and in conversations he can almost always act genuinely. Therefore, this question helps define which category people like myself vs. my husband are in.

They were good, intelligent questions that really got me thinking. I can't tell you how long it's been since someone made me have to think before answering a question. I really miss that. Thanks.

by the way, i elongated the previous 9:46 post with more details...

Wow... echoes from the past.
I thought I was completely alone. I knew I was different somehow, but I couldn't explain how. I had few friends, and none that stuck around very long.
When I was 20, I read Simon Baron Cohen - The Essential Difference, and read it with the feeling that I had been watched all my life and I was reading this guy's observations of people like me.

Fortunately, my reading comprehension is excellent. So I read, and read, and read.
I read for four years and I'm not done yet. I had to figure out WTF was wrong with me and how to work around it. But as I started paying attention to the behavior of other people with the powerful lens of psychology, I began to learn how to "fake it", as other posters have accurately described the experience. And it did feel dishonest. I still don't like crowds and shallow interaction. But after faking it for long enough, it began to be second nature.

So yes, I know that aspies can compensate for their differences. It takes a lot of failure, and a lot of observation and introspection, but it can be done. I don't think it can ever be a perfect act (mine certainly can't), but it's absolutely better than not trying at all and accepting defeat.

Things I haven't been able to successfully fake are sarcasm, non-language-based humor (I love word-play), and complex non-verbal communication. Also, my pedantic speech is never going away, I'm afraid. Worst of all, women are often incomprehensible to me. But at least I've read about evolutionary psychology. I can't fathom how perplexing I must be to them.

It must be similar to how a blind man tries to determine how an object inside a sealed glass box is shaped. NT people can look and know instantly, but I have to ascertain everything via indirect methods and careful deduction. For this reason, I'm always the last to get the joke. If I get it at all.

But I love who I am, and wouldn't change it for anything. I'm the only person I know who can be alone in a crowd. But at least I found this site. Now I can feel confident that most others in this crowd very well might feel the same way.

I think it is possible for an Aspie to "learn" NT behavior, because behavior is an outward expression. Nobody has to know how exhausting it is to carry on a conversation, or not look at the wall when someone's talking to me.

What can't be learned is the underlying feeling behind the behavior, and that's what makes it rough for me. If someone's talking to me, I know that I'm supposed to look at them (preferably in the eye, which is possible in small doses) but there's millions of other subtle things that I can't do.
I'm accused by my friends of giving a blank stare when they talk, I don't nod, or say "Uh-Huh" or anything, I'm too busy looking at them.

The behavior I can learn--the reasons for the behavior is totally lost on me.

jspark, I love your post, and I'm living the same life. Those were good descriptions. Thanks for that. I too love word jokes!! ! They are my favorite. And, yes, if the joke is not verbal, or word related (in print), I'll never get it. Or, at least, I won't find it to be funny.

My husband of 12 years has figured out my love of word jokes and sometimes he'll intentionally say the wrong word, such as opalescent when he meant omnicient, or intercranial when he meant intuitive. I'll always know what word he meant from the context. At first, when he did this, I would get a little upset because he didn't know the proper word (and indeed, who else could match the voculary of an Aspie?) but then he told me he was doing it on purpuse to get me. Then I realized it was very funny. He also says omnipotent "omni-potent", just to bug me. It's getting funny too.

So, yes, huge fan of the word jokes!

And I've been making due lately with looking at people's mouths or foreheads during a conversation, even that doesn't last too long before I wish I had something to read while they talk, so that I could be processing information at a comfortable rate.

• I am never at a loss for understanding my emotions because the majority of them were refined by careful selection and practice. Created by thought, reducible back to thought.
• When an emotional response is called for (or forced on me) logic precedes action. My first impulse is to analyze it and double-check my deduction. I can become angry (or violent), but only if I decide to allow it. Before that happens, I suspend judgment. Why fire if I haven't yet taken aim¿

When you have a really bad social experience do you feel hung over after, as if you will have to go over it and over it until you can forget.

One plus for me is that I don't really mind public speaking and in my younger days was pretty good at acting but I couldn't handle the social interactions and had to give it up. The thing is that I have been planning what I was going to say and faking my responses my whole life so it was pretty natural to write out a script or use someone elses. And don't I feel that I am being judged anyway so what if there are three hundred instead of three---all the same to me.

I was diagnosed at 10, but before that, I had gone from kindergarten to 3rd grade at a Catholic school whose teachers tried to make anyone who wasn't "normal" in their definition of the word into a "normal" kid, which was me usually because I preferred to read books and do stuff by myself then interact with others. In first grade, it was a dubble wammy because I was adopted and the teacher was an adoptive parent who had a horrible relationship with her adopted child and therefore thought that all adopted parent/child relationships were the same. So when a fellow student called me "ret*d" instead of making the student apologize or prove that I was, she made me get up in front of the class and prove that I wasn't. WHat made the matter worse is that when my mom requested a meeting with the principal, teacher, and counseler, guess who the principal sided with? The teacher. Afterwords, the teacher said to my mom, "Aren't adopted kids a bore?" My mom was even more p.o.'d and said, "No, my daughter is the joy of my life." Needless to say, I was glad to get out of that school when my mom and I moved up to Michigan and I went to a Catholic school where I was treated like everyone else, which I love. That's what helped me the most, is that the teachers and students treated me like a normal person.