THINGS NT'S DO THAT JUST DON'T MAKE SENSE!

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When people talk about their personal problem and don't want to hear things to worry about or be prepared for. They just want to hear that everything will be fine.

Also, how they have things to say during small talk/chit chat.

Oh my. What I say is going to be straight forward, so if it seems rude it's not because I'm trying to be rude.

The "hi how are you?" is stupid. I actually don't do it or I'll say exactly how I'm feeling at that moment. Like at the grocery store if they ask, I'll say "tired" or "hot" or whatever I'm feeling. Before that, that line bothered me so much that I would say "do you really want to know?" That would throw them for a loop. If I don't want to fool around with the person at that time then that's when I'll say "fine". I never ask how they are unless I really want to know. I kinda Aspie when it comes to that line, I suppose. Anyway, its really just a ritual to NT's.

OK. Now the relationship questions. I am going to be brutally honest (hard for me since I'm Miss Etiquette), but if Aspies are going to be in relationships with NT's and want it to work it needs to be told.

The "I miss you". I'm actually going through this right now with one of my Aspie friends. He went to China for a month and before he left I said "I'm really going to miss you." I meant it too. He said "Thanks! It's good to know that someone is going to miss me." I thought, what about me? Aren't you going to miss me? Am I not a good friend because you say that I am, but maybe I'm not really that important to you then. I was hurt - a lot, to the point of crying. Of course, he didn't know he hurt me that much because we are texting, but if he was in front of me he wouldn't have liked my response.

The "looking forward to seeing you". Usually I like staying home too, but I do really want to see my friends too. I say that I'm looking forward to seeing them because I am looking forward to seeing them or else I wouldn't keep them as friends. If I want to stay at home, I usually don't make any get-together dates and I tell them that I'm just wanting to relax at home. Sometimes I have forced myself to be social and it usually comes out good in the end and I'm glad I went because I really do want to see my friends.

NT's have to have their feelings reciprocated, otherwise it feels like its a one-sided relationship. I can tell you that your relationship is not going to work at this rate. I read in an Aspie book once that "NT's need to have certain things done and said and an Aspie shouldn't question whether it makes sense - it just is." That is true. NT's work on "feelings" and Aspies work on "logic".

Now about his songs. It's ok to say that they are depressing, but saying the last line of "wanting to slash your wrists" was totally unnecessary. It's fine to have a differing opinion, but how you choose to say something is what makes all the difference. What could have been said is something like "I think you're a great musician, however, some of your songs come off as being depressing. I'd really like to see you use your talent for more uplifting songs. What do you think?" So then you have said your opinion and ended it with a question to see what his thoughts are on the subject. It's all about the delivery.

You say it bothers you to have to tell him that you care. Do you care about him? It shouldn't have to be a forced effort. If you can't say it and mean it, you need to get out of the relationship because you are making him unhappy. So far, you haven't said anything that you LIKE about your boyfriend. If there isn't anything, leave the relationship.

It's all about positive affirmations. Stroking someone's ego in a way that is positive and truthful. Complimenting. Take my Aspie friends (this is also very true of NT's), I find something that I like about them and compliment them about it every so often - not daily because then it sounds fake to a person. I do this because all people respond to a nice compliment about themselves. Who wants to hear negativity all the time? And I know that Aspies like it too because my Aspie friends get very happy hearing it. If that's one thing you learn that will get you a long way in an NT friendship, it's knowing how to give a good compliment and mean it. If you must point out a flaw in a person, be sure to also back it up with something positive about them.

It's hard for me to explain the friendship thing because it usually just "clicks" with me too. I try to first get along with everyone that I'm around then try to tell who has the same "likes" as me. Opposite "likes" and it won't' work too well because there won't be anything to talk about and "bond" with. Friendship develops over time - at least the true friendships do. The more you learn about a person will "bond" you more to that person. However, you have to actually be interested in getting to know the other person and want a friendship or it will feel "fake". I also at first hold back a little because if you're too much in their face and calling a lot it can scare a person off. It's hard to judge friendships with NT's even for NT's because NT's are great at being able to have a bunch of what I call "fake" friendships - like on Facebook (which is why I'm not on FB). Also for me, the less I see of a person (and I know this is opposite with Aspies's) then that person doesn't mean as much to me. Some Aspies say that they have friends and they haven't talked to them in a year. Not me. My Aspie friends that I talk to and text often I feel a closeness, but the longer the texts go so do my feelings go.

And if you're dating an NT and they stop saying the "I love you", the relationship is going south. I know it's the opposite of Aspies. It may not make sense, but when an NT says it, say it back.

• When trying to understand the meaning of a comment, they immediately dismiss the possibility that the speaker meant exactly what was said and instead look for a hidden meaning.

Assuming ...
Assuming that I feel other than the way I say I feel, because they think they can read my body language and facial expressions better than I can read my own heart mind and soul.
Assuming ...
etc.

Fnord- it sounds like you know a lot of people who have a sense of entitlement.

[...]

Through the last few years, I've collected these observations regarding the Neuro-Typical personality. Some may be applicable in more cases than others, but I've personally observed all of these in many people, and under many different circumstances.

Things that people with Neuro-Typical personalities do that just don't make sense.

• When they see someone reading a book, wearing headphones, or working hard at some solitary task, they get the sudden urge to have a conversation with that person.

Through the last few years, I've collected these observations regarding the Neuro-Typical personality. Some may be applicable in more cases than others, but I've personally observed all of these in many people, and under many different circumstances.

Things that people with Neuro-Typical personalities do that just don't make sense.

• They believe that applying logic and rational thought in everyday conversations is somehow "weird".

• They believe that being popular is more important than being honest.

• They believe that everybody likes them, despite all the available evidence to the contrary.

• They believe that everyone should already understand the merits of their ideas without the need of having to ever explain them.

• They believe that false compliments are more helpful than truthful analysis.

• They believe that fashion is more important than comfort.

• They believe that if someone is less of a person if he or she has a disability.

• They believe that image and status are more important than ethical behavior.

• They believe that intending to do something should earn the same amount of gratitude and respect as actually doing it.

• They believe that it is only natural that people should be interested in their personal problems, and feel a sense of rejection when they aren't.

• They believe that it is rude of others to ignore them, no matter how busy they are.

• They believe that it is rude of people to "shush" them merely because they have interrupted their conversations.

• They believe that just one spectacular success from their own past makes them better than anyone else.

• They believe that living in poverty demonstrates a lack of personal initiative.

• They believe that mere appearance reveals the substance beneath (e.g., They believe that they CAN judge a book by its cover).

• They believe that merely claiming to be a good person makes them a good person.

• They believe that one person's spectacular failure makes everyone else better by comparison.

• They believe that social awkwardness can be shamed out of a child.

• They believe that soul-cutting criticism is somehow "constructive".

• They believe that telling someone to calm down will cure their anxiety.

More to come ...

Through the last few years, I've collected these observations regarding the Neuro-Typical personality. Some may be applicable in more cases than others, but I've personally observed all of these in many people, and under many different circumstances.

Things that people with Neuro-Typical personalities do that just don't make sense.

• They believe that applying logic and rational thought in everyday conversations is somehow "weird".

• They believe that being popular is more important than being honest.

• They believe that everybody likes them, despite all the available evidence to the contrary.

• They believe that everyone should already understand the merits of their ideas without the need of having to ever explain them.

• They believe that false compliments are more helpful than truthful analysis.

• They believe that fashion is more important than comfort.

• They believe that if someone is less of a person if he or she has a disability.

• They believe that image and status are more important than ethical behavior.

• They believe that intending to do something should earn the same amount of gratitude and respect as actually doing it.

• They believe that it is only natural that people should be interested in their personal problems, and feel a sense of rejection when they aren't.

• They believe that it is rude of others to ignore them, no matter how busy they are.

• They believe that it is rude of people to "shush" them merely because they have interrupted their conversations.

• They believe that just one spectacular success from their own past makes them better than anyone else.

• They believe that living in poverty demonstrates a lack of personal initiative.

• They believe that mere appearance reveals the substance beneath (e.g., They believe that they CAN judge a book by its cover).

• They believe that merely claiming to be a good person makes them a good person.

• They believe that one person's spectacular failure makes everyone else better by comparison.

• They believe that social awkwardness can be shamed out of a child.

• They believe that soul-cutting criticism is somehow "constructive".

• They believe that telling someone to calm down will cure their anxiety.

More to come ...

1) It is weird. Conversations should be more about "feelings".
2) That's just not true. I'm very honest and popular (I hope)
3) I'm sure that everybody likes me (except maybe the people I flipped off in traffic - oops.)
4) I don't understand that one.
5) Not true. The truth should always be told except "nicely".
6) Pooh on you for knowing this one.
7) What?! I'm appalled. I wouldn't be a nurse if I thought that. Shame on you!
8.) Not true. I have to follow ethics in my job. Sounds like you have some sly business partners or are you talking about yourself?
9) This might be true. After all, what is that saying? "It's the thought that counts".
10) They should be if they are my close friends. Anyone else I don't usually hang out my dirty laundry for.
11) True. And it is rude. You should always acknowledge a person that is close around you - that is what the smile and a nod is for. What does that take but less than a half of a second of your time. If you're that busy, go to a library and sit in the corner away from everyone or do the work at home and not in a business atmosphere where one is supposed to conduct themselves in a "business like" manner.
12) What?! Are you serious? That is extremely rude! If someone did that to me, something would come flying out of my mouth that would be most unladylike.
13) There's a difference between thinking that one is better than others and being proud of one's self for an accomplishment. I believe in the latter and one has to know how to carry themselves and not have their nose stuck in the air at the same time.
14) Depends on what got you there and what one is doing to get out of the situation.
15) First impressions are everything and that includes how a person presents themselves both in what they wear and how they choose to act (ie: shushing = not advised) I don't go always by what someone wears, however it can be a sign of what to expect. I do always go by first impressions of action.
16) Good people shouldn't have to profess to be such - it should just show through their personality and actions. What's that saying? "Actions speak louder than words".
17) I'd need an example to understand that one.
18) I've read other Aspies talk about that from their childhood. Did that happen to you, Mr. Fnord?
19) There is such a thing as "constructive criticism, but it is all in the way it's worded (the delivery). Otherwise, how is a person to know when they have done something wrong and it needs improvement - especially in a work environment?
20) I actually have said that usually during a calamity when people are upset and the situation is getting out of control. It is also to try to calm myself down. An example was when I was a nursing student and I was at JCP trying on scrubs actually. Someone screamed from down the way and I ran down there and found this woman shooting blood out of her leg. I got some towel to cover it, but she kept getting anxious and saying "I want to see it!" Of course I was anxious too and I said "Just calm down! The ambulance will be here shortly and then they will be able to look at it". I didn't know what else to say because of all the adrenaline going through me and I didn't need her pulling off the towel just to "look". It's a good thing she left the towel alone because when the EMT showed up and removed the towel, blood shot everywhere. It turned out she had had a cardiac cath and was going to have to have a seal placed since it wouldn't clot on its own.

Hope that explains a little more about NT's, Mr. Fnord. Time to go exercise with Shaun T.

. . . Do these people you talk to even know you are Aspie? NT's are not mind readers and we can't just "change" certain ways we communicate with each other like body language and facial expressions (about how 90% or more of communication is done) UNLESS the NT knows you are Aspie and also knows something about AS. Communication falls on both parties involved.

Yes, the person I have the most trouble with this in this area knows I'm Aspie, knows I lack spoken communication skills, and should know by now from the number of times we've gone over it that the only time I will intentionally hurt someone's feelings is when they've pushed me to the brink of a meltdown and I can't think of anything to say other than expletive name-calling type phrases. Even those, I've gotten to the point where I won't often do that unless s/he starts cussing at me first.

But the items in my list above--from my perspective, it looks like the NT does think s/he can read my mind because s/he continues to insist that s/he knows exactly what I was really thinking when I said that awkwardly worded thing that pissed him/her off so much.

This morning's example: what about leaving some lights on so people think we're home? Apparently the way I said it was "snippy" even though all I was feeling was curious and wanting to clarify. There was a change from a previously stated modus operandum that, in my Aspie way of thinking, had become a "rule." You've probably read that Aspies have trouble with the perceived breaking of a stated or assumed rule. If you look around the board here you'll find a pet peeve for many of us is that NT's seem to know when it's okay to break a rule, while if an Aspie tries to break or bend a rule, we are generally held accountable in some way.

The NT mode of nonverbal communication is little different from mind-reading to a mind that is not wired to do it instinctively. Communications skills that NT's pick up automatically, subconsciously, are not instinctive to Aspies; we have to learn it by observation, analysis, CBT or ABT or by having a really good, really patient mentor.

For me--no-one has ever been willing to take the time to teach me or train me or even explain to me those skills. I've picked up a little bit, but I still screw up a lot. I give up easily when I know I've screwed up yet again. I don't want to pass the blame; I know a large part of it falls on me for being unwilling to keep trying, try harder, and persistently ask for help. My fault also for not actively seeking therapy, but waiting for answers to fall on my lap. But I do also think maybe part of the blame falls on people who say they love me, who say they want to help, but instead of telling me how to do the thing right next time, they harp on what I did wrong for about an hour, then harp on what a bad, selfish, manipulative, hateful person I am not to be doing better and trying harder and learning from my mistakes. The only thing I learn that way is what **not** to do, and my list of things to not do is about five miles long now. And if my tone gets the least little bit impatient or defensive, it escalates to name-calling and profanity. And my tone can to me be confused, conciliatory, remorseful and distraught and be heard as angry, accusatory, defensive and disrespectful.

If I knew how to affect the tone the NT wants, I would do it--but I rather expect they would recognize it as an affectation and be mad anyway. Maybe even angrier than before.

Like I said--I know my communication skills basically suck.But it's not because I don't want to do it right or ever try to do it better. It's because I don't even know what direction of change to make, and even if I get the direction right, I "overcorrect" and commit an equal and opposite offense.

Pretty much, I see people in the way that Fnord has described. I've been enjoying these lists. Very well thought out.

Thank you. I'm barely a third of the way through the master list, and at least one new entry is added every time I read a post from a person who identifies as having a neuro-typical or neuro-normative personality.

BTW, I started the list back in 2008, when I first joined WP, and I hope you've enjoyed reading them as much as I've enjoyed compiling them!