New girl in my office

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I am in the US. Somehow I was not exposed to that particular standard until my late 40s. I just went through hundreds of pages of school correspondence and myself and my friends didn't use "girl", we used specifics "I met Kim, in my class; I have a new roommate, "she"). So it's regional and/or I was in microcultures. Growing up my parents (from the Northeast) and friends (East metropolitan) only used "girl" for a female child (under 18, "12" was an exaggeration from the humorous chart I referenced). My school community was over 50% immigrant or first generation, so perhaps has different standards. I didn't generally watch TV or movies. I went to college in the Northeast. So when an ex-boyfriend went to a college in the South and started using "girl" for young women, it really stood out to me. I dumped him (he also started to interchange "girl" and the "B" word 'no offense intended' he said --- and more importantly he didn't share my Special Interest). I was working in the Midwest but in the metropolitan area with international colleagues and women were "women". It's just now, at my workplace, when the Midwest culture fused with Southern that I am exposed to "girl" applying to women. --- I was in the Northwest (metropolitan) briefly in my 20s and don't recall being called a "girl", but my memory could be faulty if it was norm and I temporarily complied, or more likely observed and did not participate in the unfamiliar standard. Then again, I am very naïve and a mentor of mine recently said to me, "Welcome to the real world."

Indeed, I have no idea about what clothes match and what don't. I am also really messy. I forget to tie my shoes, tuck in my shirt, cut my nails, brush my hair, shave, and so forth (when that girl went into the office I had unkept beard, which I shaved probably a week later). I am also unaware about most of these things. Like the reason I mentioned tieing my shoes, tucking in my shirt and cutting my nails is that my mom nags me about it when I visit her. Otherwise I wouldn't even mention it since it would never cross my mind.

As far as my clothes style, my mom bought most of my clothes. I have a suspicion she disagrees with most of the people on what clothes are good to wear. Like for example she doesn't like it when I buy myself clothes with big signs on it and she likes to buy clothes with just lines or squares without any signs. Yet other people sometimes complimented me on my clothes with signs. But, at the same time, I also remember others telling me that the clothes I put on aren't age appropriate as in I am older yet I wear clothes for younger kids. But at the same time my mom didn't like clothes with signs even when i was younger either.

But, back to what we were talking about, here are two questions:

1. Most of my life I was unaware about it. Now I am aware, but I am 39, so what to do with all this time I lost? What if I decide to take care of my clothes now, will I get a girlfriend then?

2. Right before you mentioned clothes, I asked you how do women know about me overanalyzing. So why would they get an idea that messy clothes implies overanalyzing in particular? The only connection that I see is that people with Asperger do both. So could Asperger awarenness be the culprit here? Like back in the 90-s when Asperger was unheard of, would htey really draw that connection?




a) The problem is that they don't talk to me -- as the example of this girl in the office illustrates.

b) If I look at people that do talk to me (such as my mom or my ex-s) somehow misconceptions don't get corrected -- they only get worse.

I agree. I was only disagreeing with cyberdad who thought that they all do, which is not true obviously.

So since, as you said, "more don't than do", then I can't use that excuse that "well I am not established in job". So back to the real issue: why am I so unpleasant to be around?

Well, I would rather them like me for my personality than for my brains. People know I am smart, but they don't know I am a human; so I want to be perceived as a human for a change.

As far as helping them with grants or publications, I won't be able to do it even if I wanted to. After all, I wasn't able to do it for myself -- which is why I am back to school on the first place. I only got myself one grant, back in 2009, because my then-girlfriend nagged me to get one and she was the one who was helping me -- otherwise I don't have time to figure out how the whole grant thing works. As far as publications, yes I was trying to publish my own papers over and over, and they were rejected over and over. Out of 29 papers I have online only 3 got published. So I am in the process of asking professors to help "me" get my papers published -- so how am I supposed to be able to help someone else with it?

I "could" help them with homework -- already helped a woman from Jordan simply because I have trouble saying no (and no I wasn't hoping for anything: I knew from get go that she is married with kids and I knew that muslims aren't exactly into adultery and neither am I -- so yes the whole thing was about me not being able to say no). But you know, every time she asked me "how are you doing", I knew she was about to ask me for help with something. Thats an example of feeling used.

It can go both ways. For example, US education suffered because they tried to accommodate blacks too much. And that is something I heard from my dad who, in turn, heard it from professors at UC Berkeley, that are supposed to be liberal. Anyway, what those UC Berkeley professors were saying is this. If American high schools were to try to raise their education standards, the black students won't be making it. But since its not politically correct to say "well black students are less prepared", what would happen instead is that the schools would be accused of racism. Thats why the schools have to keep lowering their standards in order to avoid that accusation. And, from what they said, US education nowdays is a lot worse than it used to be in the 60-s.



This brings me to the other point. When I complain as to why don't girls approach me, sometimes I am being told "well its mans job to approach". I always knew it was just an excuse in order to avoid telling me the truth that I am just not likable. Well, what you just said confirms this. Since women are natural change angents, that implies that they will approach. Or do something pro-active to include me. So why don't "natural change agents" do anything when they see me standing in the corner? Is it perhaps because they think that I deserve it?!



When I see a flower on the road I take it aside so that the cars won't drive over it. I do the same thing with butterflies. Incidentally, I decided to go on backpacking trip on my own last weekend, and a butterfly flew into the car and was still alive but dying. I took it and I was going to find a nice place with water for it. But I couldn't find water since New Mexico is a desert -- even though it was in a forest. So I decided to take uber to town to buy a battle of water, which I did. So then I placed a butterfly on a flower and poured water over it, and lied the flower down with the other two buttles that I bought sot hat the butterfly won't fall off of it. Then I went to hotel. In the morning the first thing I did was check on the butterfly on a flower. It was still there. I took it since I was afraid people will go cut the grass or something so I decided I better bring it back to the forest where it is safe. But unfortunately I couldn't get uber, it was too far from town. So I started walking. But there were dogs and I am scared of dogs, so I realized that if dogs would scare me I would run and I might drop butterfly. So I placed it inside my backpack. It took me the whole day to get to the forest and by then it was completely dead and dried up.

I guess when I see things with people I am less likely to act. Patly its because I perceive flowers and butterflies as more of victims than people: after all, they are the ones getting neglected hte most, as evident by nobody else doing anything. The other thing is that I am too shy around people. Like with this whole butterfly thing, when I took the uber from the forest to town I made sure that the butterfly is in the backpack before the uber driver comes so that he doesn't see it. Well, if I were to do it for people, it is hard not to be seen. But still, I can do it sometimes. Like back in the relationship I had in 2007--2009, I stopped liking that girl in 2008, but I stayed with her out of pity because I was remembering how sick she was and how it drew us closer when I was taking care of her, so I didn't want her to feel "betrayed". I even asked her at some point "if our relationship would end, will you be able to find someone who cares for you" and she said "I don't know". I was really hoping for the answer to be yes since I was tired of that relationship but I felt too much pity for her to let her go. In fact, that memory of that girlfriend is what triggers me to take care of flowers and butterflies. I never did that before I dated her.



So is THIS why when I meet girls on dating sites and they reject me they refuse to tell me why other than they "have a sense". Mabye there is a reason why but they don't know just like you didn't know -- until you took time to analyze. So maybe if they were to analyze what is it about me that they don't like me, they "would" be able to answer? So what is your opinion, why don't people like me?



What do you mean? Did you say you gave me some power that you didn't want to give me? I am totally confused since me being naive I didn't see any of this until you just said it.



So are you saying that its not "directly" because you are a woman, but "indirectly"? Can you spell it out?



Thats not because left handed people are "bad", its because they don't have time to accomodate them.



Wow, that IS sexist. How did they even know your husbands contact info anyway?



I feel the same too!! !



I always make it a point that she says hi first: if she does, I respond, if she doesn't, I don't say anything either. 50% if the time, when I am lucky, she says hi. 50% of the time, when I am less lucky, she doesn't say anything. But she never says anything besides hi. So she never asked me what classes I am taking or teaching, what did I do in the weekend, etc. Nothing. She just sits there and does her work.

I also contacted that guy on facebook asking him about this issue, and he encouraged me to just let it go and said she isn't talkative anyway. But I remember she was talkative during that day when I asked her that question. So apparently he lies to me that she isn't, in order to prevent me from talking to her. I guess part of the issue is I don't recognize her face outside office so I can't really tell whether she talks to people or not. Its true though that nobody comes to visit her in the office (other than that one time). But its also true that she seemed talkative back then -- even if not now -- and also I don't recognize her outside the office, so who is to tell she doesn't talk when she isn't there?

Yeah sorry my bad! I mean't in order to break the ice....

Of course a long term intimate relationship requires mutual love but in order to get the girl to notice you (QFT) you need to offer something that other men they have met have not provided.

A lot single Aspie men are under some type of delusion that girls exist in some type of vacuum in some type of role play waiting for them to make a move....the truth is even average looking girls attract male attention all the time. They have plenty of options.

QFT it would be arrogant to think the girl in your office is single and has no options? she is either focused on her career or she is dating (and you are not aware) or sizing up current options from other males (or females?). Whatever the situation; in order for you to get a "foot in the door" you need to offer something to her that makes you interesting to her. That's how it works in the NT world.

Oh and one more thing QFT...a word of caution

Approaching girls who work with you is fraught with danger. A number of girls will have a policy not to date men whom they work or study with. I would be extremely cautious before hitting on this girl as there have been cases where a man has innocently asked a girl out and been hit with sexual harassment....here's an actual case study from my HR department website

I’ve been at my job in a large telco for five years. Sometime last year, a new assistant started. I didn’t notice her at first, but we got to talking at the Christmas party and have been friendly ever since. We chat at the printer and in the kitchen and go to get coffee most mornings. A few weeks ago, I got up the courage to ask her out for a drink after work. She politely declined, saying she had a policy against dating anyone from work, and although I was a little deflated, we laughed it off and kept chatting as normal as we walked back to the office. That was the end of it, or so I thought. She didn’t come to work the next day, or for the rest of the week and then the following Monday, I was called into a meeting with HR to hear that she had made a sexual harassment complaint against me! I don’t feel like asking her out once was sexual harassment. What are my rights when it comes to sexual harassment complaints in the workplace?

The correct response here is that the man should avoid asking his co-worker for a date unless he very sure the signals he is getting are reciprocated. Apparently the line between innocently asking for a drink and suggesting sex is very blurry. The HR response is to avoid this situation.

But if number of men is roughly the same as number of women, how is it mathematically possible that each woman has several male options but not the other way around?

From what I know you aren't allowed to date someone of a different status. Like I can't date students I am teaching nor can I date the professors I am working under. But if it's someone of the same status, like fellow graduate student, I don't see why not. I mean, in my own department there are two couples, all four of the people are math professors on the same department. Which is fine since it's professor-professor rather than professor-student, so they are on the same standing. So if professor-professor thing is allowed then student-student thing should be allowed too.

If the issue is not the fact that it's at work but rather the fact that the feelings weren't reciprocated, doesn't it mean that any romantic rejection can leaf to sexual harassment charges -- even the one far away from work?

I think this works like the children's game of musical chairs where each chair is like a single available girl. The problem is for each chair there seems to be multiple men seeking to sit down on one chair.

Where are the other girls (chairs)? that's actually a good question !

This is different now; relates to co-workers rather than subordinates.
I think for Aspie men you need to be extra careful to pick up cues if you are pursuing a co-worker. As i mentioned the policy in my workplace is to advise it's safer to avoid pursuing a workplace romance where the female might not be aware of your intentions. HR departments are probably getting hit with sexual harassment claims where female workers are claiming co-workers attempts to flirt are now considered harassment.

All I am saying is there is an identifiable risk...



I think the problem here is the girl. I think most girls would be good-humoured about flirting but the girl you mentioned sounds "highly strung" and from experience such female co-workers are dangerous if they are not ready to process your intentions might be annoyed enough to take it as a pretext for complaint.

You called?

I'm one of those "other girls" that don't ever get approached (which is also part of the reason I do it myself), even though I'd dare call myself average in looks. I'm not overweight and take care not to look messy, so with WP's L&D section's logic I should have an army of men lined up... but nope.

Also QFT: if you never stop to help other people, how can you be upset when they don't help you? You say that it's because you don't see them as victims, but the same can be applied the other way around, too. Maybe they can't see you as someone who'd need help. Same goes with approaching people; you shouldn't be upset about people not coming to you if you never do anything yourself.

If "liberal" means inclusive and progressive, I agree that statement is anything but that. That's sad for Berkeley and any other institution that can't figure out how to BOTH provide extra support to a group of people AND enrich the education of the remainder of people. Fixed resources are a result of fixed minds. My college had programs for students who needed additional preparation; I was "overprepared" in the subject and was selected to teach one of the workshops - so it helped those students (subject matter) and it helped me also (leadership). Win-win. Our local elementary school is going to be the ASD hub for this area: it's a great school and I expect they will implement this is a way that benefits the entire community, rather than "trying to accommodate the [ASD] kids too much". Again, basic psychology: sad "Either/Or" and happy "Both/And".


I wonder that if I looked your way, would I consider your demeanor to be gentle or inviting or standoffish - perhaps something in between. I generally don't approach men b/c I know the rules ("a woman should not be too forward") and in any case the potential of rejection is hard. Those parts have nothing to do with likeability or deserving. A person can't change everything all at once. People pick their challenges, their focus.


Beautiful. My NT husband has more empathy since caring for his kids.


What comes to mind is your statement I moved below your question. I think you're trying so hard to be "fair" or protect yourself that you are instead what I call "selflessly selfish". BTDT myself. My instinct is to say "hi" to this person with warmth and vulnerability whether or not she says hi. You said you know that you are in opposition a lot --- balance that with agreement and collaboration a touch. As much as you can, move your focus off unknown (she doesn't talk, she does talk) to what you want that is in your control (I want to talk to her) and take responsibility for trying constructive ways to do that. There was a teenage girl I met a long time ago - she was mute. I would sit by her, accepting her for who she was. One day before I moved away, she whispered a few words to me. I didn't expect them, they were not necessary, they were her gift to me.


I was thinking that "to give away my power" is to become insecure and deferential and it doesn't feel good to me and probably not to others either.


Spelling it out (which pains me b/c I don't like to "judge"). The "golden standard" in certain parts of the company (not all, but too many) is a rich white man who excludes those unlike him. The closer a person is to that standard, the more he will get paid and the further ahead he can get; the further away a person is from the standard, the less she will be paid and the more she will be excluded. I read that an Aspie's dream is that the "golden standard" is those who work hard and are thoughtful and kind.


Sarcasm: Because if they try to accommodate left-handed people too much then others will suffer (referring to ridiculous statement above). Dual-spout ladles are costly and unattractive. It's easier to clean up my mess.


No biggy: his cell phone number is on the account. Although it does amuse me when at restaurants I give the waiter my credit card and he gives my credit card and receipt to my husband to sign. Ah, this world of ours.


We have something in common. Now if it were something a bit more uplifting for both of us.

Sorry fireblossom, my posts are about NT girls who put themselves "out there" in public places (coffee shops, parties, out with friends). I realise most girls on the spectrum (I have a 14yr old ASD daughter) prefer to keep their distance from the "meat market". Frankly I am overprotective in this regard so don't include ASD/Aspie girls in my posts to QFT who himself appears to be targeting NT girls in the science field anyway. This of course of course may not apply to you specifically if you have online dating profile or are on the dating scene.

As usual females know more about their own psychology than us menfolk.

Sorry I made this into a "sausage fest" with QFT but was actually trying to achieve the same goal by convincing him to leave his co-worker alone as (yes) I too got bad vibes from what he posted and was concerned he was coming across as potentially harassing this NT girl in his office who was giving very clear signals she was not interested.