WHAT CAN AN NT DO TO MAKE A FRIENDSHIP WORK WITH YOU

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I'm not sure if I came across right.. I wasn't defending him or making excuses for him. I was trying to help you, because you seemed to start these threads, in wanting to understand your specific questions. I was trying to give some insight, because you seem upset.. and seem to not understand where some of us are coming from. We all have reasons for being the way that we are, including you.

For myself, I tend to push many people away because I am scared of them, or I just find it much easier and more peaceful for myself, to not bother with them. I've tried with many people, often at my own expense, only to get betrayed later. The most common way that I have lost NT friends, is that they do something to hurt me, then they run off in denial, telling lies about me, and why they cut off the friendship, ruining my reputation further. I never speak up or defend myself, because I don't want to play that game, and because I feel as if nobody would listen to my side anyway. I just prefer to keep my distance from NTs because it's always left me feeling used and hurt, after the exhausting friendship, where I am expected to do everything they want to do, and always told how wrong I am. I do have friends who are NT, but we are not close. I also do not want to try a relationship with one, ever again. This isn't personal. This is just what I need for my own life.

I also want to add that I don't think you're viewing this the way that I am. I don't look at people and think they're an NT and run away. I don't hate them. I believe in getting to know someone as an individual.. with their own morals and personality traits. I view an NT as someone that has the neurotypical thinking process, and lacks the ability to speak my language, just as I lack the ability to speak theirs. We live in a world full of people who are misdiagnosed, undiagnosed, or people who just simply deviate from the "norm". It's not some type of spectrum where you have people with aspergers/autism on one end of it, and neurotypicals on the other. I just happen to need the company of those who can deviate from the "norm" and aren't afraid of skepticism and blunt honesty.. And people who can respect my space and privacy. And if I couldn't have that, I would prefer to just be completely alone.

I think that we all want people we can relate to in our lives. If we can't relate to them, we tend to feel like s**t when we're around them. I hope this helps some. Just try to remember that you came here to learn. You might not always get the response you want, but you do get to see all different sides and viewpoints. I think if you were to go back, and read what he wrote again, without the personal connection, you could learn a lot about what it's like for many of us.. and just simply understand, at the same time, that he also only has the ability to speak for himself. I relate to a lot of what he's said, but not all of it.

Also, I think that the imbalance that you might be feeling, is coming from the fact that you are surrounded by people with apergers/autism, in a forum based on social skills. Your idea of what is rude, isn't always going to be considered rude by everyone here. If you were to take these same conversations elsewhere, you'd probably have lots of people agreeing with you. And you are probably used to that. The things that you are trying to tell him about his behaviour, he is probably also used to hearing. I know that I am. I know that I frustrate people.. that people find me rude and unlikable. I know that I have trouble getting along with people. I hear it every day. That's part of why I am here.

Have a good night. ^^

*Edited to add.. I wouldn't be dependent on that apology. I don't know whether or not you'll get it. But if it were me, I would not apologize. You came here, asking for a favor. He worked hard on detailed lists and let you see the parts of his mind that you were asking for. He didn't have to do that. None of us did. I thought he did a great job and didn't sugar-coat anything. Not only did that take a lot of thought, but it's not easy to write things about yourself, that you know will be judged so harshly by others.

I've been trying hard to be nice here.. And explain things as best as possible.. Again, to help you. You just said that your original post was meant to help us. It isn't.. It's asking us for help. You got specifically what you asked for, and then got upset over it.

I just really wish that you'd step back and think about where you are, what you asked, how you have been helped, and where this all went wrong. This has all really gotten out of hand.

I also find it very IRONIC that your « typical » neuro-typical will actually « sign a petition » just because it's apparently the « social » thing to do at any said given time...

Do any of the following sound familiar? At first your caregiver is amazing. He or she seems truly devoted to giving you the best care possible. But then this person to whom you’ve entrusted your care begins to criticize you and find fault with everything you do. When you try to stand up for yourself, what you get in return is a lecture or a tirade about how you’re too sensitive or how you’re making the caregiver’s life too hard.

I was fine with anything he wanted to say until the "But we're not stupid" paragraph. I'm not going to be talked to like that from anyone - Aspie or NT. It's disrespectful and rude. That's all I'm going to say about that.

I seriously need someone to explain to me how saying "But we're not stupid" is disrespectful.

I'd call that standing up for yourself which is actually difficult for many Aspies to learn to do.

[...]

But I don't see how saying "We're not stupid" is disrespectful. Many of us have been saying that in one way or another.

Why is it that instead of engaging with all of us, you focus on Fnord and look for parts of his posts to pick fights?

This goes under THINGS NT'S DO THAT JUST DON'T MAKE SENSE: They ignore everything you say except for the one thing that they can conflate into an ugly argument.

Yeah, I'm not really sure what happened in this thread, either.

I personally did not find Fnord's comments to be offensive. He is very blunt, yes. But if he spits at me, I feel like I can spit back.

Maybe his style could be called "brutally honest", but I like it. This is an example my comments earlier about preferring someone to be blunt with me than leaving me confused. I am never wondering where I stand with people like Fnord. It's all right out there - the good, the bad, and the ugly. Better this way, in my opinion, than fake pleasantries.

I've had too much of fake pleasantries with people I thought were my friends who ended up ditching me for unknown reasons. When someone is polite/pleasant all the time, I am always on the lookout wondering when I'm going to be either abandoned or stabbed in the back. I can always see what the blunt person is doing and am not taken by surprise, if that makes sense.

Standing up for one's self shows that the "self" can neither be intimidated nor "blamed and shamed" into submission. Some people seem to see this as either a direct threat to them, or a challenge to their self-proclaimed "authority". Consider the folks at Autism Speaks: We Aspies are supposed to be meek and submissive, desperately obedient to anyone who claims to want to help. When someone started selling tee-shirts printed with "Autism Speaks Does Not Speak For Me", those fine folks filed a lawsuit, and the person had to stop printing and selling his tee-shirts, which represented defiance to the alleged "authority" of Autism Speaks to represent itself as an organization that speaks on our behalf.By posting my list, I'm presenting a point of view that is in direct opposition to one person's claims. The fact that everyone else seems to be supporting my point of view (likely due to having shared many of the same experiences) means that the one person's claims are being successfully refuted, and her stated foundation for being here has crumbled.

This goes under THINGS NT'S DO THAT JUST DON'T MAKE SENSE: They ignore everything you say except for the one thing that they can conflate into an ugly argument.

Good one! I think I have something similar further down my list. If not, may I include it?

... I still don't get the NT definition & application of "respect."

Many of them seem to conflate "Agree with", "Fear" and "Obey" with the word "Respect"; as in, "You will Respect me!". They don't seem to want respect, they seem to want to be worshiped!

Trash that! People have to EARN my respect! And by "Respect', I mean "... feeling or understanding that someone or something is important, serious, etc., and should be treated in an appropriate way" (quoted from the Merriam-Webster dictionary).

I agree that NTs seem to think that "respect" means agreeing with them, etc. I have been thinking a lot lately about where my "friendships" have gone wrong. Someone here on WP a couple of months ago made a comment about how people think that offering a different opinion or disagreeing with someone often is seen as a personal attack. Oh, it all made sense!

While all I want to do is make a counter-statement, the other person thinks I am making a negative statement about him/her.

I do, however, think all people deserve to be treated with dignity & respect. I try to start out respecting others, but people can lose my respect. Even then, I try to treat those people civilly. Trust, on the other hand, must be earned.

This has often been my experience too, although I'm BAP and have NT as well as Aspie traits. Much social interaction between neurotypicals is based on consensus or the lowest common denominator, which makes for very bland conversations. And many people who see different views as a personal attack are usually not slow to criticise others. Such double standards, even hypocrisy, are regular features of NT relationships.