Niceness

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The topic of "nice guys" is totally dragged through the dirt and beaten way past the point of death over on the "love and dating" forum, but I really thought that the idea of niceness should kinda be looked at from a more social skills standpoint.
First off, does anyone else have an unusual definition of "nice"? It seems like a lot of my favorite people tend to be considered bitchy, I guess usually because they're straightforward/blunt.
I think a lot of people also confuse being a pushover/wimp with being nice.

When I hear about the whole "niceness" thing on WP, it's usually guys complaining that women don't like "nice guys," but that's already been torn to bits in the love and dating section. Outside of WP, I usually hear it in the context of women wanting to be nice by never saying no, and then ending up taking on way more than they could handle. (and then ending up being miserable and cranky)
I think that the very nicest people are those who can be assertive without being aggressive, and who say exactly what they mean, when they need to say it. So if they're bothered by something, they tell you what's bothering them and why, BEFORE they're actually pissed. I think they also tend to look at things from a learning/sharing information standpoint; they like having more information about things, so they appreciate if you tell them something you know, rather than getting all pissed that you don't bow to their unlimited expertise in every topic on the face of the planet.. they actually genuinely appreciate it, though.. not just like shutting up, but asking questions and sharing information they may have on that or similar topics, too.. so they're not just holding in their frustration and getting angrier and angrier.

So.. what qualities make y'all think that someone else is nice, and what things do you do in order to be nice? (And do those things match up?)

Basically, what you said.

Others sometimes confuse niceness with meekness and submissiveness. What always gets me is when someone writes about how they cannot get a date because they are too nice, then they reveal that that are not really very nice at all through misogynistic and other remarks.

The qualities that make me think someone is nice include kindness, honesty, lack of misogynistic, homophobic and other tendencies, compassion, consideration, and a even temperament.

I am not aware of doing things for the sake of being nice, although I am aware of trying to remain respectful in disagreements. I do not have malicious tendencies, so it's not hard.

Being nice is about being considerate of other people. Some convolute the concept to mean being submissive as a manipulative method to get what you want. That's not considerate & surely not nice.

"nice guys" in the dating forum is often a misnomer.

I equate niceness with having a general respect for other people. That means not getting antagonistic, overly rude etc. I consider myself something of a contradiction. Overtly people say I'm nice and stuff, but internally I often feel very angry and aggressive if it feels like someone has wronged me or something. I usually cool off after a while, so it's a case of keeping a level head until I'm calm again.

I'm currently of the opinion that the nice guy thing so to speak isn't literally to do with niceness. It's like a "I don't like certain things about you, but I don't want to say them," type phrase. Trouble is, if you get that, it doesn't give much of a clue as to what they didn't like about you. You have to go through a self examination period.

I'm kind of in a rut at the moment with social skills, in that I'm catching onto things that need to be improved. The trouble is, fixing them is easier said than done. I can't even have a conversation with people because I can't make eye contact. And I've got no idea how to over come the eye contact thing. I get hit by paralysing fear of danger the instant someone looks at me.

That's true. The thing is that a lot of times people who try to act meek end up being very passive-aggressive.. which is definitely NOT nice.


I agree.. although it's sometimes hard to tell. A lot of times, especially from aspies, anything un-PC turns out sounding that way.


Plenty of people end up coming off as offensive or not-nice without meaning to. Sometimes attempts at being nice come off as being not nice, particularly by either honesty or lack of honesty. It's frequently the "nice" thing to do to keep your mouth shut about something, but other times, the same thing is dishonest. That part depends on the person at the receiving end, rather than the person who is actually doing/saying whatever it is that may or may not be considered nice. Like sometimes, you may think someone said something nasty or that didn't make sense, and figure on "giving them the benefit of the doubt" by figuring that they didn't mean it to be mean, and asking them about it. Sometimes this royally pisses people off. But would it be better to just figure that the person was full or crap and NOT ask them about it? Then they don't have the chance to explain what they really meant if what they seemed like they meant wasn't actually what they meant. Ok, I tied that in knots, didn't I?

On a slightly side note, I rather like this rather derogatory definition of political correctness:

Which I guess pretty much poses the question of is the the correct/right/nice thing to do to dance around your point? Or is it more correct to say what you mean? And is it better to be sure of what you mean before saying something, or better to say what you think you mean, and then be able to discuss it and see other points of view more easily?

I'm wondering if I should have put this topic over on the "love and dating" forum, but it really belongs here. It's just that over there, it's talked about endlessly, but always in accusatory way, guys complaining that "nice guys don't get laid" and "jerks always get the girl." I thought it would be good to talk about what, exactly, "nice" actually means. Twelve bazillion things are always blamed on "niceness" but there's not actually a solid definition of what it means to be nice. I'm thinking people are just using the "nice guys finish last" line as an excuse to be jerks. I know some people do that, but I thought it meant more when actually being discussed here.

I think there's nice and then there's "nice".

I think if somebody is genuinely nice, they are kind (I stole that from Heartlessbitches.com) and actually care about other people's feelings and respect other peoples' individuality.

But then there's "nice" (done to death on Love and Dating) which is just meek at best and passive aggressive at worst. "Nice" can also be manipulative. That's when somebody behaves in a nice fashion but only to people who can do something for them and only so long as those people remain useful.

A truly nice person is nice to random strangers, family and friends alike. They don't reserve their niceness only for those who can do them a favor or those who they are attracted to.

I personally have done this to death on Love and Dating. It is aggravating when a guy says that he is very nice but it turns out that niceness is reserved only for attractive girls. That's...not nice.

Somewhere in the world of links I saw a cartoon but I can't remember where so I can't link it. Sorry. But I want to describe it anyway.

A boy and a girl are sitting on a couch together.

Boy: I wonder why girls don't notice me.

Girl: I notice you.

Boy: I wonder why girls don't talk to me.

Girl: I talk to you.

Boy: I meant attractive girls

(speechless look of outrage and hurt on the girl's face)

Boy: Maybe they don't because I'm just too nice.


That's faux nice. But in the world of actual nice...my husband. His friends gave him the nickname of The Ambassador because of this.

...and so the topic of 'niceness'.

I was rarely mean, except when driven to it (and that didn't happen very often).

Bravo! I've bitten my tongue so many times on all those nice guy threads because I knew my replies would be taken wrong, but you've summed my opinion up perfectly.

Yep.

Right.. that last one is VERY not nice. In fact, that last one is just as much a jerk as any of the jerks that the guys on "Love and Dating" complain about getting girls.
I can, however, relate to feeling special when someone who is mean to most people is nice to me.. But like I said in my original post, a lot of times people I consider nice are considered bitchy by others.


No, it really hasn't.. It's all been whining and complaining and criticizing. I'm sure I've missed some of it, but it's always talked about in a dating sense, not in an actual social interaction sense. How about talking about how to be nice in a way that is appreciated? What we consider nice in ourselves and others? How to nicely say "no" when asked to do more than we can handle?

What it is that's "nice" to an aspie seems like it just ISN'T nice to normal human beings. (Janissy and her husband aside, I'm thinking that they're just superhuman.. lol People with the ability to smoothly communicate with both NTs and people on the spectrum are in an entirely separate league.) I share information with somebody because I like them, and because I think they're worth talking to. An NT considers this to be annoying at best, usually condescending. Why telling somebody something that I know is condescending, I'm not entirely sure.. Apparently it's an implication that they don't know anything? Or that they should know whatever it is that I'm talking about? Well if they wanted to know, they'd at least know a little bit about it if they didn't get PISSED that I told them about something I found interesting. If I thought they were stupid, why would I bother?

And how does one be nice, and continue to be nice, without being taken as a doormat? Especially for somebody who doesn't have intuition about other people, in order to be able to TELL if they're going to take advantage of niceness?

To me, to be nice is to be altruistic. A very simple concept - be as selfless as possible in all places where possible. It is the guideline of self-behavior I personally go under.

I instinctively make an effort to be polite when I'm out. In terms of holding doors open for people or giving up transport seats for old people and such. It always feels really sh***y when someone just barges on through, without even a thank you, though. Makes me feel like people are just walking all over me. Then I get depressed and angst about it and vow never to be nice anymore. But it is so instinctive I end up doing it again anyway.

Most people seem to be pretty nice about it, in all fairness. I know in some sense altruism is meant to be what it is, but just a thank you makes it feel as though the person doesn't think I'm a push over that jumps when they expect me to. And it's always nice if it puts a smile on their face. Gives me a warm feeling inside, which is about as much pleasure as I generally derive in social situations.

In college, I learned why American women did not like nice guys: sexual repression. It seems that if an American woman has sex, she's a "bad girl", even if it is with her husband. I saw girls clinging to abusive boyfriends. So, I gave up on them and dated foreign women and married one.