Page 1 of 1 [ 9 posts ] 

staralfurious
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 54

25 Aug 2011, 6:25 am

I do apologize in advance if I spell things incorrectly because my spell checker is off.
I am pretty sure this topic has been discussed previously however I was unable to locate it.
I think someone on here has mentioned how most NTs tend to be hypocritical and how aspies are able to see the BS through them which is why some aspies are dispised (well one of the obivious reason) but there is a saying how everybody is the seeker of the truth. So if everyone was drawn to the truth, wouldn't people (in this case NTs) prefer to hear the truth instead of people kissing up to them to get something from them such as promotion or bonuses.
If the truth was pretty harsh, I am sure most people would prefer not to hear the truth of how they really are whether you are NT or people with ASD. But I would personally hate to hear sugar-coated lies because I would feel like I am being manipulated or being pursuded in some way.
But if I was one of those NTs who prefer to exist in the world where its filled with lies and bullshits, it must be quite tiring and I would honestly feel blinded. and I am not saying the truth needs to be told all the time because people tend to be quite harsh with their criticism when they speak of so called truth. but you would be curious to know what someone elses truly think of you as a human being with flaws and strengths like all we have instead of hearing all the sugar-coated lies that have been fed.
Like if I was a boss, I would have the choice to promote someone based on his ability to point out flaws of the system or promote someone who has a really good people skills and has been sucking up to me since the beginning. But wouldn't most NTs choose a person based on people's skills than his actual qualification and his ability suggest an alternative approach to adjust the system? Because NTs are more about their inner feelings and governed by them while it's been said Aspies are governed by things other than feelings.
what are some of your personal takes on this?



Grisha
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,336
Location: LA-ish

25 Aug 2011, 7:59 am

I can relate to just about everything you said, but remember, it's an NT world and always will be so you must adapt if you want to be successful and/or not bitter and miserable.

Yes, like many Aspies, I tend to "call it like I see it" - fortunately I was able to put this tendency to good use as a nationally-ranked Wall Street (stock) analyst. The capital markets are "rational" to the extent that you either make money or lose money, there's no "sugar-coating" it - this really levels the playing field for an Aspie.

While I was in industry, I used to jokingly call myself the "designated a-hole" at meetings which kind of made my bluntness feel less personal.

Unfortunately, what you say about NTs preferring good people skills over professional competence is 100% true. I finally realized that there was no way I was ever going to reach my full potential in that environment, this ultimately forced me into entrepreneurship which has actually allowed me circumvent this, at least income-wise. I really don't care about prestige/titles - I just want the money! :wink:

I hope this was the sort of feedback you were looking for, and welcome to WP! :)



glasscasket
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jun 2011
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 160
Location: In a sea of dreams and nightmares

25 Aug 2011, 8:57 am

Well, I'd rather hear the truth even if it is brutal sometimes, than sugar-coated BS or harsh lies. And welcome to WP :)



Ann2011
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Jul 2011
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,843
Location: Ontario, Canada

25 Aug 2011, 10:35 am

I will never understand the emphasis NTs put on social interaction. They overlook and even change their recollection of past events to suit their social reality. This seems counter-productive to me, but it works for them. It's very frustrating when you try to do your job well and conscientiously, but get overlooked and taken for granted.
Not much you can do about it though.



Anamnesis
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 28 May 2011
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 92
Location: Bristol, UK

25 Aug 2011, 11:46 am

staralfurious wrote:
I do apologize in advance if I spell things incorrectly because my spell checker is off.
I am pretty sure this topic has been discussed previously however I was unable to locate it.
I think someone on here has mentioned how most NTs tend to be hypocritical and how aspies are able to see the BS through them which is why some aspies are dispised (well one of the obivious reason) but there is a saying how everybody is the seeker of the truth. So if everyone was drawn to the truth, wouldn't people (in this case NTs) prefer to hear the truth instead of people kissing up to them to get something from them such as promotion or bonuses.
If the truth was pretty harsh, I am sure most people would prefer not to hear the truth of how they really are whether you are NT or people with ASD. But I would personally hate to hear sugar-coated lies because I would feel like I am being manipulated or being pursuded in some way.
But if I was one of those NTs who prefer to exist in the world where its filled with lies and bullshits, it must be quite tiring and I would honestly feel blinded. and I am not saying the truth needs to be told all the time because people tend to be quite harsh with their criticism when they speak of so called truth. but you would be curious to know what someone elses truly think of you as a human being with flaws and strengths like all we have instead of hearing all the sugar-coated lies that have been fed.
Like if I was a boss, I would have the choice to promote someone based on his ability to point out flaws of the system or promote someone who has a really good people skills and has been sucking up to me since the beginning. But wouldn't most NTs choose a person based on people's skills than his actual qualification and his ability suggest an alternative approach to adjust the system? Because NTs are more about their inner feelings and governed by them while it's been said Aspies are governed by things other than feelings.
what are some of your personal takes on this?


You've tried to rationalize a problem that doesn't quite work when rationalize. Sure, it might be better for everyone to not lower themselves to hypocritical thinking, but there are essentially two big milestones in the way:
- Most hypocrites (NTs or ASD, because it's not just NTs) are in a situation of dominance. They've got what they want - and usually something they would lose if they reverted back to objectivity. Why would they? Selfish greed > compassion in this world every day of the week
- If someone tries to change, they'll be met with the wall of hypocrisy from all others, and will therefore quickly revert back. There's just no reason to try to be the "just" and the "objective" if everyone else is unjust and biased - it feels unfair, and people quickly revert back to their old ways, unless everyone changes in one go

The whole problem reminds me a lot of the prisoner's dilemma. However, in this case, most people in this situation probably do not even notice that they are biased. They just act the way everyone else acts.



staralfurious
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 54

25 Aug 2011, 11:54 am

Ann2011 wrote:
I will never understand the emphasis NTs put on social interaction. They overlook and even change their recollection of past events to suit their social reality. This seems counter-productive to me, but it works for them. It's very frustrating when you try to do your job well and conscientiously, but get overlooked and taken for granted.
Not much you can do about it though.


Because I am under assumption that great number of people on this forum are actually NTs who are extremely interested in this "syndrome" or lonely NTs who use ASD as their excuse to explain why they are unable to make friends and become noticed. I would think this will be their new trend since NTs like to copy whatever they think is cool or unique. because they like to do anything or everything to get noticed or stand out, ASD traits would certainly suitable option for them to use as their personal accessory. ASD has been treated as something of negative in nature in many ways in the past which I personally liked and appreicated because it has not been explored too much at the time. Because it is best to be left alone among the ones who have it than to be used as new fad or something even worse. I think we all need social interaction on equal basis. But Aspies simply have different styles of communication and choices of topic. and Although no one has made any clear assertion about this but its NTs that usually have major problems accepting differences unlike how they often make aspies out to be the weird or bad guys. and they put on so much effort to try to change anyone who are not like them but in reality Aspies are usually the more rational, controlled and reliable people.
I do not hate NTs unlike they hate some aspies with full rage and even aggression.
But because I put so much value on ASD and think of them highly, this constant effort we are encouraged to fit in NT world to please and survive can feel very tiredsome and at times meaningless. Especially if you think of the society where majority of people would behave as aspies and NTs would be considered as a minority group that need to be examined, studied to be understood and even medicated in order to control their unfavorable behaviors.



staralfurious
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 54

25 Aug 2011, 12:01 pm

I just realised that you can't edit the post after certain time has passed let alone delete them.
Do you know how to go about deleting comment or replies?
I think the concept of not being able to delete certain comments kind of deter me from casually discussing things. What do you think of that particular feature?



KWifler
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 11 Aug 2011
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 236
Location: Bellingham, WA, USA, Earth

28 Aug 2011, 3:54 am

I agree with the OP. This is something that I have difficulty explaining to everyone else. Not only does it seem impossible to teach people these basic simple behaviors, but they seem to try so hard to predict what they think I will say to be rational and objective and say it like they are sure of themselves. When I am yet again outraged by their behavior, they wonder why, after all, they did pretend perfectly that they were being objective and rational. They think that imitating me is the same as being objective, yet they just say their same hypocritical nonsense, just in a different tone of voice like they are being so serious. Then they go along with someone else like it meant absolutely nothing.

I have tried kissing up to people and imitating how they say opinions and playing along with their pedantic make-believe role playing situations and become their best friends and risen to ultimate power, and I felt horrible about it and eventually had to leave and never be around them again. I think I am destined to live alone for the rest of my life.



staralfurious
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 54

28 Aug 2011, 5:57 am

Anamnesis wrote:

- If someone tries to change, they'll be met with the wall of hypocrisy from all others, and will therefore quickly revert back. There's just no reason to try to be the "just" and the "objective" if everyone else is unjust and biased - it feels unfair, and people quickly revert back to their old ways, unless everyone changes in one go

The whole problem reminds me a lot of the prisoner's dilemma. However, in this case, most people in this situation probably do not even notice that they are biased. They just act the way everyone else acts.


True, everyone is unjust and biased. you said there is NO reason. there can be reasons, Plenty of reasons actually.
I can think of personal integrity, your personal objective in your life and many other things. it's your life and you were supposed to make up reasons to make you feel good about yourself and your life. I mean, if you can commit a hideous crime and that makes your life feel fulfilled, you got to do what you have to do.