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Koblih
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12 Apr 2013, 7:15 am

Hi, I´m not sure if I want an advice, maybe just a few opinions on the topic. Lately I´m loosing those few close friends I have, well I still like them and I know they want to be my friends, but they do things which seem immoral to me or which hurt me. I don´t trust them (or I don´t wanna trust them? don´t know) and I don´t feel good around them anymore. Are you forgiving in these things? Have you ended a good friendship just because of something your friend did?



RightGalaxy
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12 Apr 2013, 8:13 am

Actually, I ended a BAD friendship because of what a so-called friend or friends did to me.
Sometimes they do bad things to you to get rid of you. They're ousting you out of the group but they don't want the guilt of doing so; thus, they drive you out by making it impossible for you to stay. They don't want your forgiveness. They want you to get stuffed. Most of the times, people like this do you a favor because once you're away from them, you can let moral, caring people into your life. Remember, birds of a feather flock together. If you're with an immoral, mean group, you'll get the reputation of being the same way. Good people will avoid you and your so-called friends will continue to devour you.



Cilantro
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12 Apr 2013, 9:02 am

I try to think of a few things:

1) Was the hurt deliberate and what is the context? Did they lie so they could benefit from my ignorance or did they just wind up canceling on me a few more times than I'd like? One of those is a reason to end a friendship, and if the other it would be a waste to end.

2) Are our moral differences part of our fundamental code or are they minor elements of it? One of these is something I don't think people can or should be expected to compromise on, and the other one is just learning to understand and cooperate with different perceptions of how the world works.



Koblih
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12 Apr 2013, 12:07 pm

I don´t want to be specific so I´m not making myself clear. Partly because its more separate incidents. My point wasn´t that they´re doing something deliberately to hurt me, but that they´re acting immoral and that means a lot ot me. Essentially they´re a good people, just neuro typicals with all the bad things that goes with that :D It´s a common problem with AS/NT relations, neither wants to harm other person but they do, cause they don´t understand each other and they have different points of view
Could you have a friend who´s good to you but an a**hole to someone else? How would you feel around a person who doesn´t want to do you any wrong but does it repeatedly?



Cilantro
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12 Apr 2013, 12:46 pm

Koblih wrote:
I don´t want to be specific so I´m not making myself clear. Partly because its more separate incidents. My point wasn´t that they´re doing something deliberately to hurt me, but that they´re acting immoral and that means a lot ot me. Essentially they´re a good people, just neuro typicals with all the bad things that goes with that :D It´s a common problem with AS/NT relations, neither wants to harm other person but they do, cause they don´t understand each other and they have different points of view
Could you have a friend who´s good to you but an as*hole to someone else? How would you feel around a person who doesn´t want to do you any wrong but does it repeatedly?


My friendships are almost exclusively with NTs and I don't think that's necessarily the source of the problem. Even NT-NT friendships typically have different opinions of right and wrong or hurt each other without meaning to.

I consider my friends' choices to be their choices and the results their responsibility. If they're not doing something severe like egging on a suicidal person, setting fire to cats, or swindling then I don't care if they have a quarrel with someone or want to do something I don't agree with. There's a lot to be said, again, for something that conflicts with the foundations of your moral code versus something that conflicts with minor elements.

People do things that aren't ideal to us because of different priorities and logic. I'm not perfect, either, and I don't want to create a social circle for myself where people have to be without flaw in their conduct nor do I want to create a bubble for myself where I hear nothing but what I already know and agree with. Interacting with vastly different people has significantly improved everything from my understanding of the world to (believe it or not) my morals and character, and has also rewarded me with very reliable friendships because we're held together by the fundamentals and know how to weather the rest. I let their misconduct go because I'm no better and it affects very little in the end.

One of my friends is highly confrontational, but I wound up getting used to him because I saw beyond that. He's cranky, he's medicated (not nearly enough imo), and he's opinionated. However, he doesn't mean anything by it in regards to me and "is an a**hole" in situations that he believes are morally important. That changes my perspective of the way he talks and acts despite its initial appearance. He's not malicious and has the mind to apologize if he's unfairly harsh sometimes, but he expects his friends to challenge him if he's being unreasonable and to understand the way he is as a person instead of to become sad or demand change.

To summarize, I try to worry about the important things and let the smaller ones slip and ask about what's bothering me. These people are my close friends in the first place for a reason, though there are a few people I've stopped talking to because they didn't care about how they affected me or they did start to do things that were too much to tolerate. If it's making you unhappy to be around certain people and there isn't a way to smooth things out, you do have to think of what's healthy for you. Since I don't know the specifics, I can only talk about my own experiences and offer some alternative ways to look at things.



Koblih
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13 Apr 2013, 7:22 am

Cilantro wrote:
Koblih wrote:
I don´t want to be specific so I´m not making myself clear. Partly because its more separate incidents. My point wasn´t that they´re doing something deliberately to hurt me, but that they´re acting immoral and that means a lot ot me. Essentially they´re a good people, just neuro typicals with all the bad things that goes with that :D It´s a common problem with AS/NT relations, neither wants to harm other person but they do, cause they don´t understand each other and they have different points of view
Could you have a friend who´s good to you but an as*hole to someone else? How would you feel around a person who doesn´t want to do you any wrong but does it repeatedly?


My friendships are almost exclusively with NTs and I don't think that's necessarily the source of the problem. Even NT-NT friendships typically have different opinions of right and wrong or hurt each other without meaning to.

I consider my friends' choices to be their choices and the results their responsibility. If they're not doing something severe like egging on a suicidal person, setting fire to cats, or swindling then I don't care if they have a quarrel with someone or want to do something I don't agree with. There's a lot to be said, again, for something that conflicts with the foundations of your moral code versus something that conflicts with minor elements.

People do things that aren't ideal to us because of different priorities and logic. I'm not perfect, either, and I don't want to create a social circle for myself where people have to be without flaw in their conduct nor do I want to create a bubble for myself where I hear nothing but what I already know and agree with. Interacting with vastly different people has significantly improved everything from my understanding of the world to (believe it or not) my morals and character, and has also rewarded me with very reliable friendships because we're held together by the fundamentals and know how to weather the rest. I let their misconduct go because I'm no better and it affects very little in the end.

One of my friends is highly confrontational, but I wound up getting used to him because I saw beyond that. He's cranky, he's medicated (not nearly enough imo), and he's opinionated. However, he doesn't mean anything by it in regards to me and "is an as*hole" in situations that he believes are morally important. That changes my perspective of the way he talks and acts despite its initial appearance. He's not malicious and has the mind to apologize if he's unfairly harsh sometimes, but he expects his friends to challenge him if he's being unreasonable and to understand the way he is as a person instead of to become sad or demand change.

To summarize, I try to worry about the important things and let the smaller ones slip and ask about what's bothering me. These people are my close friends in the first place for a reason, though there are a few people I've stopped talking to because they didn't care about how they affected me or they did start to do things that were too much to tolerate. If it's making you unhappy to be around certain people and there isn't a way to smooth things out, you do have to think of what's healthy for you. Since I don't know the specifics, I can only talk about my own experiences and offer some alternative ways to look at things.


You mentioned swindling - that´s exactly the thing (if I´m not mistranslating). It doesn´t affect me directly but I´m so disapointed. I´ve created this topic when I was really upset, now when a bit more calmer, don´t know what to say. I guess I´ll just be avoiding them for some time and then when I see what my opinion really is, I can confront them and try to make things work again. Thing that worries me is that they might not show any regret, for me that´s the last thing they could do to make me respect them again. Regret could be a good thing, but a true one, not just blowing sorrys like soap bubbles.



Summer_Twilight
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13 Apr 2013, 8:08 am

I think what you are experiencing is that you cannot please other people and that is what has been going on.

It also sounds like you are telling them that you don't agree with the things they happen to be doing and so that makes them mad because they think

A) You are trying to change them when that is not the case

-Or-
B) You are being a goodie two shoes.

I have had people react the same way to me as well and it was not fun.

Finally, if you don't trust them then you have to go with your gut feel and this sounds like that.