Most human socialising is insane.
Innerpeace
Blue Jay

Joined: 9 May 2012
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 86
Location: North of the river, London.
So it occurred to me today that much of the social behaviour in our world is insane.
This is because it is a reflection of the mass state of conciousness, which is largely unconcious of the role
or the existence of the ego. By ego, I am referring to a sense of identity derived from a collection of concepts
about who you think you are. These concepts could be based in national, political, class, social or other forms.
For example the statement: 'I am x' nationality. On one level this is true, but on the essential level, this statement is
meaningless. The concept of nationality is exactly that: a concept. It does not exist in anything except a thought.
How can you be a thought? Are you a thought about the like of a particular band? Is a thought essentially who you are?
Most socialising in our world today is an unconcious battle of egos with other egos to survive. Egos form fragile pacts with
other egos that society calls 'friendship'. These pacts provide temporary relief to the fragile state of the ego, which is constantly
looking to protect itself from that which it most fears: destruction. When conditions change and one ego is no longer able to provide the sense of security to another, these pacts are quickly discarded by egos, which frantically go searching for more egos to shore up the rickety structure.
Situations, other egos or beings which threaten the identity structures created by the ego are regarded as dangerous and become: the enemy.
Society reflects the state of the collective conciousness through institutions, laws and customs.
Western society reflects back through media representations the notion that much of the unconcious ways of socialising are normal, civilised and to be applauded. Anyone who says otherwise is shown as insane or dangerous by the institutions, laws and customs of society.
This has led me to the realization that to try and mimic unconcious behaviour in whatever form to appear normal is insane. It also makes me realise that those who try to resist the urge to play the unconcious games through reaction to fear will face great challenges.
As someone with AS, I am concious that much of the social behaviour that I am unable to mimic is being used in an unconcious way anyway. I think having AS is a bit of a blessing as it gives you the oppurtunity to see unconcious behaviour and realise it within yourself.
With awareness of the existence of the ego and by being mindful or present, one can develop real meaningful connections with other beings and have unconditional love for all life.
I recommend reading The Power of Now, for excellent teaching on how we can be free of the ego. There are many free videos of him on youtube and you can download the book for free online.
Last edited by Innerpeace on 11 Apr 2013, 5:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.
You're exactly right. I've been thinking about this very thing a lot lately, and it has occurred to me that all human (and animal) behavior is ultimately selfish, except for one thing: suicide. Yet we are consistently told in the West that this is especially selfish, even though it leaves resources that enable others to survive and pursue their selfish goals.
I disagree. Most socializing is innocuous, and even well-intentioned.
If you break it all down to the lowest level, everything we do is motivated by selfishness. Even altruism is motivated by selfishness. People act altruistically because of the satisfaction they get from doing the right thing. In pursuing interactions with others, we are being selfish. But... that's a completely different thing from "warfare". Warfare involves hostility and attacking.
I don't understand how you have reached the conclusion that the only thing that is ultimately not selfish is suicide. I think that is pretty much the most selfish thing anyone can do. When someone commits suicide, he/she is thinking only of ending the pain for himself/herself and not at all about the pain others' will feel when he/she is dead.
Then I stand corrected: everything we do is selfish.
I don't understand how you have reached the conclusion that the only thing that is ultimately not selfish is suicide. I think that is pretty much the most selfish thing anyone can do. When someone commits suicide, he/she is thinking only of ending the pain for himself/herself and not at all about the pain others' will feel when he/she is dead.
What if you have NO ONE in the world who cares about you, then is it selfish?
I don't understand how you have reached the conclusion that the only thing that is ultimately not selfish is suicide. I think that is pretty much the most selfish thing anyone can do. When someone commits suicide, he/she is thinking only of ending the pain for himself/herself and not at all about the pain others' will feel when he/she is dead.
What if you have NO ONE in the world who cares about you, then is it selfish?
Yes, because you are taking something out of the world without any regard to the consequences of that removal on the world (kind of like the butterfly effect of time travel).
Wait, how is that a disagreement? The OP said social behavior is unconscious. That doesn't mean that it isn't also mostly innocuous and well-intentioned.
Last edited by starkid on 16 Apr 2013, 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Whether or not something is selfish depends on motivation, not incidental consequences. If someone specifically kills themselves with the intention of leaving more resources for others, then yes, there is some altruism in their act, but of course all acts are inherently selfish.
The decision to commit suicide is not necessarily arrived at with no consideration for others.
Sweetleaf
Veteran

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,155
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
I don't understand how you have reached the conclusion that the only thing that is ultimately not selfish is suicide. I think that is pretty much the most selfish thing anyone can do. When someone commits suicide, he/she is thinking only of ending the pain for himself/herself and not at all about the pain others' will feel when he/she is dead.
I would have to disagree with that based on my own experiance, I have attempted suicide once and have considered it quite a bit more than that. And usually I do think about the pain others will feel, of course it doesn't make me feel better but I can't help thinking about it. Then it feels like they would still be better off if I wasn't here. I can't speak for everyone but no the only thought isn't ending the pain, that is just one of the motivations.
_________________
Metal never dies. \m/
Ahhhhh, Innerpeace. I've found a friend! Have you read much of Krishnamurti's work?
I've thought this long and long. Since I was a little one, I have loved to watch people, as if researching them, seeing their reactions to things, wondering their motivations, seeing their blunders. But when one brings the term 'selfish' into it, I really have to think. What is 'selfish'? A term we've come to know as negative. The first thing we want to do when out of our mother's womb is eat, and the last thing we do before death is take a breath. Is it not who we are? Born wanting? Die needing?
I love to watch animals as well, and often, when in a pickle myself, envy them and their simplicity. Eat. Drink. s**t. Piss. Mate. Sleep. My God, how wonderful. Out of survival, they have heirarchies (not fixed, and mostly based on health and strength), but no ego. They read one another's energy constantly—no need for idle chit chat. They watch body language and action. Yet we as humans have been taught since childhood to 'listen to me when I'm speaking to you', 'listen to what adults say', 'do what I say' even though we don't feel good about it in our guts. We're taught to value words over actions, which leads to heartache and sometimes tragic death.
On a funnier note, though it still applies, I often think about how silly dancing is. I mean really, music comes on and people begin moving their bodies and laughing or looking quite serious. Imagine stumbling upon a room where a group of people were doing that, lights low, with no music. I can't help but giggle (and this is coming from someone whose special interest in high school was hip hop dancing . . . I even thought it then!).
Such a fascinating topic. Thank you. And yes, Tolle, Krishnamurti, Keyes - live in the moment. Best advice there is.
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trends and fads and popular opinion.? ~Jack Kerouac
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I am NT, but I ultimately agree with you. So many NTs assume that our system of meaningless social rituals is "right" simply because we outnumber people on the spectrum. However, I do believe that AS includes some blessings, such as the one you mentioned.
This is because it is a reflection of the mass state of conciousness, which is largely unconcious of the role
or the existence of the ego. By ego, I am referring to a sense of identity derived from a collection of concepts
about who you think you are. These concepts could be based in national, political, class, social or other forms.
For example the statement: 'I am x' nationality. On one level this is true, but on the essential level, this statement is
meaningless. The concept of nationality is exactly that: a concept. It does not exist in anything except a thought.
How can you be a thought? Are you a thought about the like of a particular band? Is a thought essentially who you are?
Most socialising in our world today is an unconcious battle of egos with other egos to survive. Egos form fragile pacts with
other egos that society calls 'friendship'. These pacts provide temporary relief to the fragile state of the ego, which is constantly
looking to protect itself from that which it most fears: destruction. When conditions change and one ego is no longer able to provide the sense of security to another, these pacts are quickly discarded by egos, which frantically go searching for more egos to shore up the rickety structure.
Situations, other egos or beings which threaten the identity structures created by the ego are regarded as dangerous and become: the enemy.
Society reflects the state of the collective conciousness through institutions, laws and customs.
Western society reflects back through media representations the notion that much of the unconcious ways of socialising are normal, civilised and to be applauded. Anyone who says otherwise is shown as insane or dangerous by the institutions, laws and customs of society.
This has led me to the realization that to try and mimic unconcious behaviour in whatever form to appear normal is insane. It also makes me realise that those who try to resist the urge to play the unconcious games through reaction to fear will face great challenges.
As someone with AS, I am concious that much of the social behaviour that I am unable to mimic is being used in an unconcious way anyway. I think having AS is a bit of a blessing as it gives you the oppurtunity to see unconcious behaviour and realise it within yourself.
With awareness of the existence of the ego and by being mindful or present, one can develop real meaningful connections with other beings and have unconditional love for all life.
I recommend reading The Power of Now, for excellent teaching on how we can be free of the ego. There are many free videos of him on youtube and you can download the book for free online.
Innerpeace,
I've had very similar thoughts about it. Recently I had this visualization that I was a giraffe and humans want to get close to giraffe's and take pictures, but the giraffe just wants and needs oneness time in nature with no talking. Just pure silence with the trees, birds and fellow calm and peaceful giraffes.
Ahhhhh....
Feels betta this way.

_________________
Warmly,
K.D.

(just a women from Sedona, AZ trying to figure it out...)
I wonder there is a spectrum of Solipsism Syndrome.
Pure Solipsism means people only know their own Ego and experience is real and the outside world is no more real them than The Matrix.
However, suppose there are things in the outside world the person finds disagreeable? Their Ego will try to demand that everyone else conform to their sense of Reality.
There are so many classic examples of this BS. So and so is married with kids and why you're still single. Why can't you be more like them?
Even people partying hard, doing drugs, and wasting away their health will say you're a boring person for not joining in with their party lifestyle.
My favorite though would be the American visiting another country wondering why they can't get a good burger anywhere. Why can't this country be more like America? Actually, the scary thing is America may have a collective national Solipsism.
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