Can NT's tell were faking it?

Post Reply New Topic

I always thought I made good contact until I decided to conduct an impromptu science experiment. Typing in "face/protrait/insert name of celebrity here" I perused the images and discovered that my gaze gravitates automatically towards the bridge of the nose which encompasses the eyes but I never look directly into peoples' eyes. I find this to be rather uncomfortable in fact and find myself being "sucked in " - this isnt conducive for most conversations.
Ive heard most ASD individuals focus on the mouth I used to be utterly abominable at even looking into the face of people I talk to. Do people actually notice if you dont stare them squarely in the eye or can they trell that we're "faking it">

I only know 1 adult with asd and I wouldn't have known if she hadn't told me. But I don't really like eye contact myself so maybe wouldn't notice people not giving it as much as someone who expects a lot.

I think some people do notice. One coworker will try to stand taller or move side to side to try to get direct eye-contact with me. As if eye-contact wasn't distracting enough, try talking to a person who's bobbing their head around to force direct eye contact. I haven't noticed others doing something similar. The appearance of eye-contact could likely be improved with some experimentation or practice, but it isn't something I've tried.

Yes, they can. And not just over eye contact.

No matter how well you think you're faking it, neurotypicals can always tell you're not one of them. They may not have any idea what autism or AS are - in fact, if you tell them that's the problem, they may argue with you because you don't act like Rainman, but they always have a sense that you're not quite right.

Most of the time, they assume you're being difficult or weird on purpose, just to annoy them.

I don't think that ALL NT people in ALL situations can spot ALL AS people, even if it's something as simple as a 'vibe' they get off the AS person.

It's too dependent on too many factors, including whether the NT person has something on their mind at the time, whether that NT person is particularly perceptive, how well the AS person 'passes' in general (which may mean a judgement by others that the new NT person simply accepts), and often (if the AS person keeps his distinctively AS traits private, as many learn to do) the degree of familiarity between the NT and the AS, etc, etc etc..

I think it's perhaps a characteristically Aspie form of paranoia to imagine that we go around giving off a distinctive and all-pervasive miasma of 'Otherness'. And most NT people simply aren't that observant anyway.

Just thought I'd chip in my perspective as an NT who lives in close proximity to a lot of people with asperger's.

I think a lot of people can tell something isn't typical but they just don't care. The thing you have to remember is that there are whole ranges among us for what is normal and not normal and we run into something different every day, often several times a day. For most of us I think it almost becomes common place. I don't even bat an eyelash at it anymore.

I don't think this is true, at least not in most of the cases I've run into. I think what is true is that some people just don't know how to deal with differences well. In the case of those people they've become used to using certain prescribed reactions around other people and then suddenly they find that their methods of appearing cool aren't working. It unsettles them. This is probably true for more people in High School than at any other time of life (Lets face it, lots of people are incredibly fake in High School) but you'll get these people all along the road. Trust me, they annoy me too.

Another thing I thought I'd address is how I know a lot of people with AS have trouble making friends with NT people. From what I've seen, it's pretty much because of lack of communication rather than NT strangeness radar and rejection. Personally this idea doesn't bother me much, but from what I've seen a lot of NT people become afraid of the intensity of being someones only friend. They get the idea that if they reach out then suddenly they'll have to spend all their time around that person when they enjoy spending time with a lot of people and doing a lot of things.

For Example: I actually had a talk with one of my best friends about this when she was deciding whether to reach out to someone she wanted to be friends with about this. She was worried that he'd read too much into her wanting to be friends with him (like, that he'd take it to mean she was interested in him relationship-wise). That didn't end up mattering because they're dating now anyways >< but the fear of intensity was still there initially.

That's very perceptive and I would suggest that it's a tendency AS people develop during childhood (having a 'best friend' to the exclusion of all others, which is perfectly natural at that age, and also provides useful security for the developing AS person's personality). but when this tendency is extended into adulthood (usually because unsuccessful attempts at socialising have failed to provide other models of friendship-forming) it comes across to strangers as a bit 'unsettling' or even 'stalkerish'. (It can also be dismissed as 'needy', but this is a label that is usually applied to others by selfish people who generally aren't worth anyone's time anyway).

I don't know what the cure is, apart from perhaps to keep initial contact with that other person light, positively demonstrate interest on occasion (perhaps bringing them a magazine article you thought they'd be interested in, which might perhaps inspire conversation) but not to a frequency anywhere approaching habitual, and see if the NT person becomes interested in you and opens up (which can happen) or just doesn't seem interested at all.

Its so true that the autism spectrum isnt the only measure of "Otherness". Autism is itself a conflation of a complex and wide ranging set of behavioural traits and supposed neurological/physiological ones People on the spectrum are ridiculously diverse so there will be some who give off an autist's vibe but there'll be others with subtler impairments and unique traits.

Not only that but I think we overestimate how observant people are. I dislike the term neurotypical for this reason as there really is no NT norm. NT is a standard model by which we judge ourselves and others. Beauty would be a good example some people are said to embody the current "classical" ideal of beauty and not only is that subject to change but many people spend their lives measuring themselves against this consensual fabrication. I

Anyway the NT concept exerts a gravitational pull on our psyche but noone is* an NT - everyone without exception simply tries* to be Neurotypical - some are more successful than othershowever

Well, there was the time my dad gave me a long lecture. I just stared into his right eye so hard that I only saw a wavering mandala. . .

Most so-called "neurotypicals" feel that they must fake their moods on a regular basis, as well, so you are not alone in that respect. You might presume that empathy would allow them to perceive the dishonesty of others with greater ease, but in fact empathy makes it more difficult to tell when somebody is lying or hiding their true feelings because the lie becomes mixed up with the truth.

To discern when somebody is being dishonest requires greater perception than basic empathy provides, but so many human beings wear a mask presently that this kind of perception is difficult to cultivate no matter whether you fit on the autism spectrum or not.

I think that's true. Unless we go through intensive therapy to change the way we stand, walk, move our heads, etc., people will sense something is very different, but that won't stop an NT from accepting us. It's what we decide to learn that matters.

Only celesco answered the OP's question. I agree with the answer, by the way. They can tell we're faking, but as long as we fake the right thing, since everyone else is faking too, it's fine.

The OP asked if NTs can tell we're faking, not if they can tell something about us is different.

I feel like you're telling the truth here.

When I learnt eye contact I was told to look at the bridge of the nose. Do you guys really think they can tell that you're not looking them directly in the eye but at their nose? Also, I am not sure but I assume my gaze is too strong when I have eye contact, as if I were over compensating.

depending on their prior experience with ASD, they may or may not realize that you are faking it, but they will always realise that something is 'off' about you, even though they often can't lay their finger on it

I agree that most NTs can tell that most aspies are faking it, but they may not understand that it's "faking." Phrasing, tone of voice, body language, etc are SO complicated it's really amazing that anyone can follow the rules, let alone a majority of people.

I do think it's easier for NTs to tell WHY a non-aspie is "faking" things. It may be because the person doesn't really like them, or is trying to impress them, or is nervous, or preoccupied, or whatever. I've noticed that it's harder to tell with male aspies what the faking is due to than with female aspies. Unfortunately, society has more behavior expectations from women and are more likely to attribute the way a woman acts to a preconceived idea, such as "she's shy," or "snooty," "mad at me," or whatever.

They can always tell when someone is different. The kids on the playground always find someone to be the odd one out. I don't believe adults are any different.