Feeling ill at ease around friends' girlfriends

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I reached a point where all my close friends are now in relationships, ranging from 2 months to nearly a year. So when we hang out together, each friend's girlfriend comes along, although not every time. And I find that the mere presence of those girlfriends makes me ill at ease. The feeling is strongest in bars, moderate at sports games, and nonexistent at the respective girlfriend's home. (Although in the last case, it's almost ironic, because "her house, her rules".) And when I share something personal with my friend, I pretty much make him swear to secrecy to never tell it to his girlfriend, under the pretext of me "not having known her for very long".

One girlfriend in particular really makes me really uneasy and self-conscious, with the way she dresses, acts, and talks, even though she's never done anything disrespectful toward me the whole time she knew me. Her overall demeanor and appearance has a glitzy LA/Hollywood-esque vibe to it. (She's actually from Jacksonville, FL.) But I can't help but wonder if she'd totally mistreat me if I weren't her boyfriend's long-time friend. And I can't say all this to my friend, obviously. And it's getting serious.

Another girlfriend, who's African American, a different race than the rest of our group, and quite attractive, actually causes the least amount of discomfort in me. She talks a little too loud and emotes heavily, but has a warm, bubbly personality that put me at ease the first time I met her. She's made a joke at my expense once, but the way she said it, it just felt so harmless that I wasn't bothered by it. We have an interest in common: strange new ethnic foods, a few of which I recommended to her.

Other friend's girlfriends fit somewhere in-between. I get along with them OK, but still feel a level of discomfort.

I also have two less-close friends who are girls, and both of them have boyfriends now. Interestingly, those guys evoke no such discomfort feelings. They've been always cool toward me, even when seeing me hug (appropriately) and dance with their girlfriends (also appropriately) when we hung out together. I'm not actually friends with those guys, plus we don't have much in common, but I'm totally fine being around them.

So why all this? Why do I feel so uncomfortable around my friends' girlfriends? They've clearly done nothing hurtful toward me, and yet their mere presence makes me ill at ease. When we all hang out together, I never fully relax until she has to leave early (or when we call it a night), especially with the "LA" girl. And what about that African American girl? She seems to cause the least amount of discomfort, although race isn't the reason. Then why? And why don't guys, who are likely to view me as competition, cause any discomfort whatsoever?

No replies, huh.

Well, I hung out with my friend and the "LA" girl last night, and also another friend and his girlfriend. We were in a sports bar, watching a game. And I can't get over how uncomfortable I felt! While the other girlfriend was pretty chill and made a little bit of effort to engage me, the "LA" girl had a really intimidating, "in-your-face" presence. Although, her being dressed in latest fashions (whatever's equivalent to Forever XXI these days) in a divey sports bar contributed to that.

Interestingly, when another friend's girlfriend (the African American girl) acts in a similar way, it doesn't have the same intimidating effect on me. Probably because she smiles more and dresses more plainly. That, and maybe the shared interest of ethnic foods helps "humanize" her for me.

You can stay home or figure out how to be civil to your friends girlfriends. You don't have to like them, just be civil to them.

My technique for the folks I've no choice but the see is to figure out what their "thing" is -- parakeets? Skeet shooting? 1960s Bollywood movies? -- ask two questions, pretend you're interested in the answer, say "so nice to see you, xxxx" and then go talk to whomever you like. There's very few people I can't find some redeeming thing or interesting thing about their "thing".

Of course I'm civil to them! The discomfort feelings manifest themselves in covert suspicion, rather than outright hostility. For example, if I tell my friend something in confidence, I make him swear not to tell a soul. Which includes his girlfriend. My fear is that she'll tell the wrong people or post it on all her friends' Facebook. I'm also afraid of them judging me if they see or learn anything unflattering. I harbor no such fears toward my female friends or their boyfriends.

I did try to find something in common with these girls. With one girlfriend, it's ethnic foods. She took my advice once and thanked me afterwards; she came off as quite ditzy at first, but that warmed me up to her. With another, it's Israeli culture (she's Jewish, like me), although we haven't spoken much. But there's one who's just really intimidating. To the point where I can't relate to her at all. And I feel bad, because her boyfriend is one of my best friends.

How long has your friend been with the 'LA' girl? Maybe with time it'll get better?

It also sounds like your friends bring their girlfriends all the time, maybe you need time with just the guys? Maybe you should suggest every once and a while you all hang out without the girls, but make sure you say it in a way that they wouldn't take offense to. For example, my ex-girlfriend ALWAYS wanted to go with me everywhere every time I spent any time with any of my friends and my friends would try to find a nice way to ask me to spend time with them without her. I totally understood they didn't want her there every time by the way they would ask. They'd say "let's hang out just the 3 of us"

But of course you will need to eventually get more comfortable. It doesn't sound like you are dating anyone? Do you think that is part of the reason? With time it will get better hopefully.

Yeah, why are the girlfriends around all the time? I unfriend people when they bring their dudes out when we go out. I didn't make friends with their boyfriends, I made friends with them. Plus, no one can relax when the guys are around. You have to be able to complain about your significant other and say rude things without worrying about anyone getting offended. This also goes for same sex relationships. Significant other goes out with their OWN friends!

That's your answer. You're uncomfortable because you're supposed to be. This going out all together thing is doing it wrong.

Another thing just might be different social statuses/crowds.

If you're usually the shy or geeky type male, OP, you'd definitely feel at odds with someone that usually wouldn't dare associate themselves with you, and perhaps this is what you are picking up from her.

There's many people that make us uncomfortable simply due to the fact we know if it weren't for a mutual friend this person wouldn't give us the time of the day, or would even be the source of misery.

It's like the nerdy guy who's friends wit a woman who ends up dating the arrogant jock type guy that use to bully him in high school.

I think this may be part of the reason, OP because you keep brining up her personality and fashion as your main sources of unease.

Not saying you're a 'nerd' or anything, but perhaps you do in some way feel too incompatible with this woman personality-wise. For all we know you could just be a laidback, lower middle class thrift store frugal guy who feels uncomfortable around the upper-class, flashy old money rich brat types.

That's something to ask yourself, about npt just this LA woman but the other women as well - what would your thoughts of them had been in high school, or better yet how did they treat you in high school? You might have thought differently at that age and been more immature, but it can still mean a lot.

I think you're onto something there. The LA girl seems like someone who would have bullied me viciously in high school, and angrily rejected me if I approached her in a club. While today, she's never done anything disrespectful to me, just acted in ways that sets off danger signals in my head: the most common is talking fast and loud, like a pushy salesperson. While wearing the latest trendy fashions.

The African American girl dresses and acts more low-key, but still "better" than me. I suppose I feel comparatively comfortable with her is because of her race. (Now, don't judge me!) She's the only black person in our group, plus, as a minority, she's must have had at least one experience where she felt out of place. So I guess I feel like she's better able to understand my life experience as an aspie male, someone who also feels out of place quite often. (I'm white.) Not to mention we found a shared interest in trying new ethnic foods, which is not the case with the LA girl.

What's interesting is when I went on cruises, I've met many women, of all races, like the two above: very attractive and fashion-minded, although from what I saw, they just wore whatever and didn't care. One girl I asked to dance actually turned me down, but she was so warm and friendly, I didn't even feel rejected. Either way, I felt perfectly at ease with them each time. Somehow, the tropical latitude, the gentle swaying of the ship, and the flirty conversations managed to disarm my psychological defenses. Perhaps my mind reacts to clothes, rather than to facial expressions and actions, as being a threat to my safety.

Which is a fair point.

I very much think it's okay to form opinions of someone based on how they dress, their sense of fashion/style, visible cleanliness and hygiene, etc.

Because the way we choose to make ourseves look and dress can say a lot about our personality. 90% of the time if I guess someone's personality based on how they dress, I'm correct.

And in your case it turned out true that the Forever 21 fashionista is exactly that - a glitzy, loud and extroverted woman you feel at odds with.

AAnd I can definitely relate to your cruise thing. In situations where I am at a place people still barely know me and my inner personality, I feel I can do anything and be anyone as people don't know me well enough to make assuptions. This usually means I do end up associating myself with those I would never dare even try to talk to and they do the same, and the location/scenario is designed so that niether parties usually evoke their inner-social status monitors and simply conform to the standards of the situation. In other words, on a cruise a nerd can hang around the jocks because of a common goal - to just have fun and enjoy yourselves. Or the usually uptight rich people might tolerate the type of person they expect to be working for them and instead treat them as an equal. But outside of this 'sphere', they go their separate paths. My better example is school - within the classroom there's no judging of differences and everyone gets along, outside no one gives two sh**ts about anyone. It's normal and something I accept as natural.

Yes, that's exactly what's going on. Ever since my friends started dating their respective girlfriends, we have not had a single all-guy hangout. One friend came alone once, but just for half an hour or so; he came by to return a book I lent to him. Another friend is permanently joined at the hip. That said, he's only following our group's unwritten rule: always bringing your girlfriend everywhere you go. Two weeks before Thanksgiving, the five of us went out to a club, and it was my turn to drive. I felt like I got taken for a fool and used as their Uber, even though the guys were nice enough to pitch in for gas. (The girls did not.)

They all squeezed into the back seat, and having a conversation with them was impossible, because they were all too busy cuddling. In the club, a "glitz and glamour" place where the girls felt right at home, I spent more than half the time chain-smoking cigarettes. On the way back, it even degenerated into a group cuddle, with the girls in the middle. When I tried to talk to them, all I'd get in response is one-word mumbles and laughter. (They were drunk.) It took me two weeks to speak to my friends again. In the meantime, I only hung out with my Meetup groups, where even new couples show relative restraint, and looks like that's what I'll have to do in the future.

Why not organize a guys night out? Surely one is in order after more than a year!

My group of friends doesn't work like that. The "always bring your girlfriend" rule is pretty much set in stone. It's been that way ever since one guy had his first relationship in high school. (Not one of the friends described in this thread; he's more of an acquaintance to me.) He's kind of the alpha male of our group, so he managed to set the tone. That's why I've meeting all my friends' girlfriends pretty much after their first date, usually at parties we all went to.

No idea if the respective girlfriends have the same rule. My guess says no.

At first, I wasn't going to reply, but then I noticed that the second post was also yours, and it seemed like you really want some opinions.

So here goes.

Why weren't you going to respond initially?

On a personal level, we're fundamentally different.

You hold yourself to a very strict set of self-imposed rules, "her house, her rules", "And I can't say all this to my friend, obviously.".

In contrast to yourself, I'm a very liberally minded person, with very few rules.

If we're so fundamentally different, how can you possibly help me?

A fair question. Based on the two sentences I quoted above, the kind of advice I would typically give to someone in your position, would at best not be very useful, and at worst entirely unwanted.

So again, how can you possibly help me?

I'm bisexual and polyamorous, I've been in hundreds of romantically inclined relationships, and it's very likely that I'll have been in thousands before I draw my last terminal breath. This gives me a very deep pool of personal experience, understanding and other factors dealing with both sexes from which to draw from.



You never mentioned not having a girlfriend yourself, so I'm assuming that's the case.

Women in a relationship tend to have a low opinion of men that aren't, especially if they routinely interact with them on a regular basis. This is a natural defense mechanic, it centers around the potential answers to questions of why you might be single. It helps protect women from potentially abusive and violent men, unconsciously putting them on their guard.

However, it is possible to lower and even nullify this defense, largely by being the respectful and well intended type of person that you've already described yourself to be. Do note however, that every person is different, and if they've had previous experiences with abusive and violent men, then the time needed for them to lower their defenses can fluctuate.

Assuming that is not the issue, it could be this one.

People can be very possessive when it comes to the one that they love.

As a poly, I've had to learn this lesson the hard way, and it's forced to make it very clear to any and all potential love interests, long before we even get romantically involved, that I am polyamorous, and to make sure they know exactly what that entails.

My society demonizes possessiveness in relationships, and assuming the social values demonstrated in American Television Dramas are to be believed, America does as well. This forces people who are overly possessive, to hide it. However, that's the thing about feelings, their very difficult to hide. Even when it's done well, there may still be some signs showing on the subconscious level.

If you've known your friend as long as you have, and the connection runs as deep as you say. It's not difficult to imagine why Girlfriend, new on the scene, might be feeling jealous towards your relationship, and start to slow develop ill feelings towards you.

I think this could be the reason, thoughts?

That's probably it. I think the LA girl subtly despises me for not having a girlfriend myself. I'm even tempted to hire an escort and have her pose as my girlfriend, next time I hang out with that friend (who always bring her along), in a "Put that in your pipe and smoke it!" sense. But that's mostly a fantasy, given the $300 an hour cost for an escort. Combined with her latest fashions and generally loud behavior, I just can't fully relax around her. While she never disrespected me outright, I still suspect she thinks I'm a loser.

Another friend's girlfriend has a similar personality, but doesn't set off danger signals as strong. I suppose I can nickname her "NOLA girl" (for New Orleans). Her personality resembles the namesake city: loud, edgy, flashy, and at odds with my mellow, clean-cut, and laid-back self, but less fashion-obsessed and more welcoming of individual differences. Just like New Orleans, she likes unusual foods the rest of America avoids, which I enjoy too. I feel a little bit more comfortable with her because of that, and realize she doesn't think I'm a loser, just maybe a strange guy, but I still can't fully relax around her, either.

Both of these friends had relationships before, just as I did. But their previous girlfriends were more laid-back and even more mature somehow (despite being younger chronologically), and made a genuine effort to make me feel a part of the group. These girlfriends, on the other hand... well, I started this thread for a reason.

Maybe you feel alone because everyone else has a partner?

Third wheel syndrome.

You're confusing cause with effect there. I'm starting to realize that these girls look down on me for not having a girlfriend, although one of them is a bit nicer about it. And I can totally pick it up from their body language and how they talk, much like they knew I'm single before I even opened my mouth. That's what's triggering the "ill at ease" feelings.

Like I said, these friends' previous girlfriends were much friendlier and treated me as an equal, even giving me light, platonic hugs. So I had no issues hanging out with them, third wheel nonewithstanding.