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Acadiana
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09 Jan 2016, 3:35 pm

It happened yesterday. AGAIN. Situation is always similar for me. I am in a group setting, with other 'women'. Many don't know each other & are meeting for 1st time. So, if at some point a woman and I say 'hi' to each other and begin chatting, it is fine. But, if another (3rd) woman walks up, introduces herself to us, that changes. 90% of the time this happens, within the 1st 5 minutes, the other 2 give each other consistent eye contact with now only an occasional 'glance' at me, even though I am contributing as much as they are to the conversation. I have even had it happen where the one woman that I was talking to first, completely ignored me after the 3rd woman came up and introduced. I'm talking not another look at me. How awkward!!

I swear I am not saying crazy stuff either. That's likely the 1st thing you'd think of. NO. This has been happening to me for as long as I can remember! I am not a freak (though I feel like one!), I keep up with the conversation in a normal manner.

All I can think of is that I am an Aspie and/or I must give off some type of crazy weird aura?

Conversation wise, as a person-I am one who talks less rather than more. I am a GREAT listener, I think better than most. I ask curious & pertinent questions (though not too many), as I know ppl like to talk about themselves. I do NOT like to talk about myself. I realize that I am pretty private AND I feel like most ppl DO (NT trait??) like to talk about themselves. Which, honestly, I find boring...but nonetheless, am a curious person, so I listen intently. STILL, with that said, I seem to somehow repel ppl!!

This is the main reason that I am 'here' on this forum. To see what it is about me! That repels people, women! As I said in another thread, I am 45yo, look much younger than my age, consider myself an attractive, intelligent & kind woman who is ready to help anybody at the drop of a dime. I am huge people watcher (likely to see how others interact with each other) and I see attractive women be accepted and even adored by other women, so as some have suggested in the past, my issue cannot be because I am attractive/smart/kind (i.e. a jealousy thing)!

I have to add that when I talk to men, totally different. No problems there! Much easier!

This is driving me nuts. Other than my husband/family, people do not understand me!

Any thoughts on this? I am sure somebody else on this forum has this same issue?! Input?

Thanks.


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Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 123 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 93 of 200
You seem to have both neurodiverse and neurotypical traits
AQ=38


Yigeren
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09 Jan 2016, 3:56 pm

I have the same problem. Although I do say unusual things. I'm bad at conversation with women.

Part of your problem may be that women can be really catty and tend to exclude other women that don't fit into their group. It's really just like high school. Many women don't seem to outgrow this behavior.



Scaevitas
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09 Jan 2016, 5:26 pm

Acadiana wrote:
I think better than most.


Here's your problem!



Acadiana
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09 Jan 2016, 5:51 pm

Scaevitas wrote:
Acadiana wrote:
I think better than most.


Here's your problem!


How so?

In my experience as an adult, it is more common for people to want to 'be' the talker than to 'listen' to the talker.
So, no. I don't think that is why in a (usually) ~5 minute timeframe of meeting new women, that they shun me.


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Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 93 of 200
You seem to have both neurodiverse and neurotypical traits
AQ=38


cjay106
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09 Jan 2016, 5:56 pm

There’s a saying: Two’s company, three’s a crowd and though that’s often meant in the context of two lovers who would rather not have anyone else around I think it can be just as applicable in other social settings.

A lot of people are just not that good at addressing whatever they are saying to more than one person at a time and will often just look at one person as they talk despite their remarks being for everyone present to hear. Like, you I am a people watcher and I see this a lot.

Or it could just be that when person number three arrives they have something particular they want to say to one of the two people who were already present. I see this happen a lot too within the social groups that I mix in. There might be a conversation going on among two or more people and someone else arrives. The new arrival can’t possibly wait for the conversation taking place to finish. She just butts in and starts to monopolize whoever it is she just has to talk to. I find it extremely rude and often find myself biting my lip to stop myself saying so.

I find it’s happening more and more as women seek to compete among themselves over who is the busiest, who is the most stressed by juggling work and family life. Maybe this butting in is part of it. “I’m so busy, I just can’t wait my turn.”

However, you say that the context is one in which the women present don’t know one another. Is this a work context? A conference of some kind? Could it be that women may never have met before but know one another by some means? What kinds of things are people talking about?

I’m have been a widow for many years, lost my husband relatively young and never had a family. A find that a lot of female conversation focuses around husbands, partners, children and grandchildren and so I often feel out of the loop. My circumstances have been such that my life has taken a different path. I’ve had more time for career, travel, personal interests. I seem to take a keener interest in current affairs and politics than my peers as well as subjects such as the arts and technology. Often, if I try to steer the conversation away from the domestic and towards things that interest me more but I soon see their eyes glaze over and someone will turn the conversation back to their family.

Like you, I find men enjoy talking to me and I enjoy talking to them. You can have a different and often much more interesting conversation with a man.

So, I wouldn’t be too quick to beat yourself up over it. Your quiz scores suggest you are somewhere in the middle AS/NT. I score very highly as an NT but I have still experienced some of the behavior that is worrying you. It could be that other women are being bitchy but in all female company, it can be hard to get a word in edgewise. Some women just never know when to stop talking and quite frankly I think anyone who is a bit quieter, a listener rather than a talker, can find themselves left out.



100000fireflies
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09 Jan 2016, 6:11 pm

Acadiana wrote:
It happened yesterday. AGAIN. Situation is always similar for me. I am in a group setting, with other 'women'. Many don't know each other & are meeting for 1st time. So, if at some point a woman and I say 'hi' to each other and begin chatting, it is fine. But, if another (3rd) woman walks up, introduces herself to us, that changes. 90% of the time this happens, within the 1st 5 minutes, the other 2 give each other consistent eye contact with now only an occasional 'glance' at me, even though I am contributing as much as they are to the conversation. I have even had it happen where the one woman that I was talking to first, completely ignored me after the 3rd woman came up and introduced. I'm talking not another look at me. How awkward!!

I swear I am not saying crazy stuff either. That's likely the 1st thing you'd think of. NO. This has been happening to me for as long as I can remember! I am not a freak (though I feel like one!), I keep up with the conversation in a normal manner.

All I can think of is that I am an Aspie and/or I must give off some type of crazy weird aura?

Conversation wise, as a person-I am one who talks less rather than more. I am a GREAT listener, I think better than most. I ask curious & pertinent questions (though not too many), as I know ppl like to talk about themselves. I do NOT like to talk about myself. I realize that I am pretty private AND I feel like most ppl DO (NT trait??) like to talk about themselves. Which, honestly, I find boring...but nonetheless, am a curious person, so I listen intently. STILL, with that said, I seem to somehow repel ppl!!

This is the main reason that I am 'here' on this forum. To see what it is about me! That repels people, women! As I said in another thread, I am 45yo, look much younger than my age, consider myself an attractive, intelligent & kind woman who is ready to help anybody at the drop of a dime. I am huge people watcher (likely to see how others interact with each other) and I see attractive women be accepted and even adored by other women, so as some have suggested in the past, my issue cannot be because I am attractive/smart/kind (i.e. a jealousy thing)!

I have to add that when I talk to men, totally different. No problems there! Much easier!

This is driving me nuts. Other than my husband/family, people do not understand me!

Any thoughts on this? I am sure somebody else on this forum has this same issue?! Input?

Thanks.



It's of course had to answer without witnessing...do you have someone close that can sit within earshot and observe a situation?
Could it be the types of women you're meeting...fancy pants done up women or yoga pants and you're..not?
I've read (and can be true for me, so please don't take offense) that some aspie women don't think about typical social things like deodorant or makeup..which i'm sure can make some women (individuals vary) be snobby.
You said you people watch, is it possible you're doing this out of habit while interacting (which can be read as staring or intense)?
Could, because of past experiences, your energy shift as soon as the third person shows up.which creates a kind of self-fulfilled prophecy?


As above, one can't say without seeing it, so maybe one of these ideas will click.


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100000fireflies
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09 Jan 2016, 6:15 pm

Do you maybe make little non-verbal signs of disdain when listening and bored?


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nurseangela
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09 Jan 2016, 6:35 pm

You said the other two women usually give each other consistent eye contact. How is your eye contact?


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zkydz
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09 Jan 2016, 8:10 pm

Here is something I have been thinking about. ASPartofMe mentioned "The Uncanny Valley". I'd only heard it in reference to 3D movies and how creepy the attempts to do 'realistic characters' has actually freaked people out. "Polar Express" and "Mars Needs Moms" ring a bell?

Since I was aware of that, it made sense to me if I applied it to myself. What if I'm just normal enough, but just off enough that it doesn't sit well with people.

Just off enough in conversations, mannerisms, etc. that if bothers people.

Hell, I've been called Yankee all my life because I don't have a southern accent. Yet, my entire family has the thickest twangs ever. Only lived in a 'yankee' area for 1.5 years. Everywhere else I was around my family or somewhere in the south. Bugs the crap out of them.

So, the littlest things can bug them and I just give up on trying to understand them.

Maybe you're uncanny valleyish yourself?


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Acadiana
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09 Jan 2016, 9:12 pm

Yigeren wrote:
I have the same problem. Although I do say unusual things. I'm bad at conversation with women.

Part of your problem may be that women can be really catty and tend to exclude other women that don't fit into their group. It's really just like high school. Many women don't seem to outgrow this behavior.


It can be any type of women. It's pretty much consistent most of the time.


_________________
Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 123 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 93 of 200
You seem to have both neurodiverse and neurotypical traits
AQ=38


Acadiana
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09 Jan 2016, 9:33 pm

nurseangela wrote:
You said the other two women usually give each other consistent eye contact. How is your eye contact?


I think my eye contact is right on. Maybe too intense? :roll:

cjay106-The context is usually about similar topics we all have in common and why we are together.

Yigeren-Yes, I have recently found that just because we are 'mature/older', (these women are my age, in their late 30's, to mid-40's)...it does not mean that all outgrow the catty high school-ish behavior.

100000fireflies-It is all types of 'women'. Some are done-up and some are very casual. Myself, yes, I do wear deodorant 8O . lol. Makeup...not all the time. I don't think that I people watch while in conversation with others. I can see how that would come off as rude. It's usually if I am by myself, sitting, then I would people watch. Energy shift possible. There has to be some reason for the repeated occurrence.

zkydz-This could very well be! ===> "What if I'm just normal enough, but just off enough that it doesn't sit well with people.

Just off enough in conversations, mannerisms, etc. that if bothers people."


_________________
Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 123 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 93 of 200
You seem to have both neurodiverse and neurotypical traits
AQ=38


Last edited by Acadiana on 09 Jan 2016, 9:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

probly.an.aspie
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09 Jan 2016, 9:52 pm

I have had this happen to me--not absolutely all the time but often enough that i can identify. And i agree, it is in groups of women. I cannot figure out why. In a social gathering a few months ago, I had a friend there who purposefully drew me into the conversation. But in a gathering of more than two women, i am the outsider. Always. Even if i try to participate.

I was told about some of my mannerisms once by a very honest (guy) friend that made people uncomfortable. One of my worst ever days--who wants to be confronted with your awkwardness?--but i was glad he said something. I have worked on these mannerisms and i think i have improved them. I was always extremely self-conscious in my younger years which was definitely the root of a lot of the awkward mannerisms. Being aware of how it looked and came across helped--even though it doesn't feel natural, i have been able to consciously change some of them to a less awkward looking mannerism or do away with them completely.

I almost always feel more comfortable with men than women. I have a few close female family and friends whom i love dearly and consider kindred spirits...but i am usually a one-on-one social person when it comes to women. I am generally far more comfortable chatting with a group of guys. There are a few guys out there who can be petty jerks, but in general that is not the way they roll.


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Acadiana
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09 Jan 2016, 10:07 pm

probly.an.aspie wrote:
I have had this happen to me--not absolutely all the time but often enough that i can identify. And i agree, it is in groups of women. I cannot figure out why. In a social gathering a few months ago, I had a friend there who purposefully drew me into the conversation. But in a gathering of more than two women, i am the outsider. Always. Even if i try to participate.

I was told about some of my mannerisms once by a very honest (guy) friend that made people uncomfortable. One of my worst ever days--who wants to be confronted with your awkwardness?--but i was glad he said something. I have worked on these mannerisms and i think i have improved them. I was always extremely self-conscious in my younger years which was definitely the root of a lot of the awkward mannerisms. Being aware of how it looked and came across helped--even though it doesn't feel natural, i have been able to consciously change some of them to a less awkward looking mannerism or do away with them completely.

I almost always feel more comfortable with men than women. I have a few close female family and friends whom i love dearly and consider kindred spirits...but i am usually a one-on-one social person when it comes to women. I am generally far more comfortable chatting with a group of guys. There are a few guys out there who can be petty jerks, but in general that is not the way they roll.


I usually enjoy talking to men, it's so stress free and they are so UNcomplicated! I wish I had someone to alert me to my mannerisms! Eee gads! Scares me to think of it..... :|


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Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 123 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 93 of 200
You seem to have both neurodiverse and neurotypical traits
AQ=38


nerdygirl
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09 Jan 2016, 10:11 pm

This same things happens to me, too, and always has.
But there are a few reasons I don't care.
I prefer 1:1 conversations anyway.
I like listening more than talking, so I will just listen in on conversations (being a part of them, but not. Though it is rude when people start talking to each other AS IF I AM NOT THERE, which is a different thing that happens sometimes.)
Most of the people I know don't exactly exclude me, I just become a 3rd wheel. That's OK.
I am not itching to talk to most of the women I know.
I prefer the company of men, and I'd rather just keep it that way.
I guess I have a bad taste in my mouth for talking with women considering how it was growing up with a bunch of mean girls all the time.

At this point in time, I don't care to work on any social skills, and I don't really care what mannerisms I might be doing to put people off. I get on OK most of the time, and certain special people will put in the effort to be a real friend. They don't come around too often, but I'd rather wait for them than try and fix myself and always be worrying about if I am doing something right or wrong. I just *am.* The work I do is based on skill and enough personality to get along with people and do my job...that is enough for me to get work. I don't want any more social skills training to make friends with people I think are relatively superficial anyway.



Yigeren
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09 Jan 2016, 10:36 pm

I've also always felt more comfortable talking with men. They are direct. There is no cattiness or mean girl type behavior. I also believe that I think more like a man (in general) even though I'm feminine. Only problem is that I have to worry about being hit on.