"Stop arguing with me"

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I've noticed a trend whenever I talk with NTs. I'll say my opinion, they'll say their opinion, I'll respond to their opinion with my own opinion, and suddenly it's, "STOP ARGUING WITH ME!" Why are they like this? I'm not necessarily saying their opinion is wrong, just that I don't necessarily agree with it and I'm backing that statement up with why I don't agree with them. For example (Not a real conversation)

Me: "I like Brandon Sanderson. I think he's the best author ever."
Them: "I prefer Tolkien."
Me: "Tolkien is good, but I don't like how he always goes on and on. Brandon Sanderson is more to the point, you know?"
Them: "Adam, stop arguing. Not everyone has to share your opinion."

Is this just me, or is anyone else going through this too? Why do NTs think that a contrary opinion automatically means you're arguing with them?

Last edited by ThisAdamGuy on 12 Nov 2016, 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Post deleted by request of OP

Last edited by BTDT on 12 Nov 2016, 9:56 am, edited 2 times in total.

Yeah, no, let's not discuss politics here. Thank you.

I get that sometimes... people thinking I am being argumentative. The way it has been explained to me is that people take that type of discussion as more than discussion... it's like they take it as an assault of sorts on their view point. They take that stuff personal. I find it confusing, because to me that sort of thing is just basic conversation that will eventually lead to (hopefully) not only a good conversation, but as a path to understanding someone elses take on a thing (on both sides). To them, I am told, it is me calling into question how they view something and as well as asserting that my opinion is the only correct one... even when I clearly say no such thing. It's like I called into question their core beliefs when all I wanted to do was understand their view on why, for example, they think summer is so great.

Oh, another thing I have been told is that I am wanting to discuss things no one cares about and that I am nit picking and overthinking a thing no one else cares to. Like I am trying to get deeper into a topic that people just don't get deeper about. That confuses me because if people have an opinion about something, don't they have a reason for it? If they didn't want to talk about it, why bring it up in the first place? I draw parallels to this type of reasoning and small talk... like the same as me giving a full blown, honest response to "How are you today?" when what I am expected to say is "I am well, thanks. And you?"

That's what I have been told anyway.

They see you as low status, so their opinion is more valid then yours and when you do not defer to them, it is seen as you being argumentative.

This has to do with how NTs don't really hold solid beliefs. I would recommend you get the book "A field guide to earthlings", I don't like how it is written, but it has a lot of good information in it about how crazy and stupid NTS can act.

EDIT
I have managed to get away from this by only talking about science and being an expert in my field, but I still occasionally run into it when I collaborate with others. I am generally correct, but it takes them a long time to come around and there is never an apology.

^^^I like this answer, because I think it identifies the main driver for that type of interaction--low status.

I also am expert in a particular field, but when I collaborate I run into similar problems. Not as much, as in the world of general conversations, however.

Many Aspies complain about not being "taken seriously." It is this thing, "status" that defines how much "the group" wants to listen to a person. All of us can see, that in any group there is a person or two whose opinion everyone wants to hear.

And then there are those whose opinion nearly no one wants to hear. That usually would be us. Perhaps it's the way we come across, but more likely it's just that our social skills deficit doesn't do much in favor of our popularity. This type of interaction is more of a symptom of this.

Because they can't tolerate different views. They want everyone to agree with them and they don't like hearing a different opinion.

Status is construct of social interaction; it requires confidence, lies, manipulation and threats (violence in extreme cases). It relies very little or not at all on knowledge or skill outside of social interactions (except in survival situations).

When we are not willing to admit the superiority of the high status person's beliefs, we are not acknowledging their status. This puts us in conflict with that person and often we are considered enemies because of it.

EDIT
Once we are enemies, they won't stop until we are destroyed.

Yes, this happens to me a lot. I learned to be very cautious with teachers and the likes, to the point where I am too catious. But I don't have the energy to argue with my teacher because lots of them ARE insulted personally. If I do I try to get the point across as quickly as possibly, if the teacher doesn't understand immediately I generally accept their answer because I know more is seen as arguing and a personal attack. With people I am close to and feel I can trust (which are very few) I tend to argue, which ends up with them telling me I don't listen to them and don't mind their opinion, but in the end it's the opposite. They won't bother to explain their point when you point out an obvious flaw in their logic. This might be seen as nitpicking, but I just don't see why I should just pretend I agree with their opinion when their whole point is invalid.

I have had the same exact experience.

But it isn't even that they claim we don't mind their opinion, but they often have no basis or rational for their opinion, so they can not argue or defend it.

When you ask them to clarify, they realize that they can not and once again it is "you" who are confrontational and arguing. When it is "they" who are getting defensive and feeling threatened.

My graduate school adviser felt so threatened, when I asked why or to explain something he said, that he had to constantly, visibly enforce his power.

Somehow in his mind I should have known to just accept what he said without question. Never mind the fact that I would never learn anything that way.

I have a co-worker like this right now.

EDIT
I also get this from people with whom I work and are not very good at their jobs. They feel threatened, get defensive and then blame me.

I find myself going out of my way to be meek and non-threatening because they are so useless, but have social power and can destroy me in that arena.

That's true. If that happens I don't see why it isn't okay to tell the other person so they can clarify or change their point of view. It's not like I'm forcing anything down their throat.


That sounds like my stepfather. I have a really really bad relationship with my stepfather, he is very abusive. Because of all those years of abuse I can get quite loud. The arguments can get very heated. I understand that they are purely emotional, but especially in the heat of an argument I try to resort to logic to defend myself, "maybe there's a chance he'll understand" I feel. Of course he doesn't. He then tries to turn around words or talk his way out by changing topics or generalizing the problem at hand. If I continue and show him that everything he said is completely wrong he tells me "if you don't like it here then you should just move out" and depending on his mood he might just get physical, but he'll get actually physical, not just waving around his arms. I should know better after many situations like this, but not standing up for yourself can really hurt your self-confidence...

That is a rough situation. If he is physically abusive, I would urge you talk to someone about it.



Once an argument like that has started, truth and facts are not important to NTS (if they ever are).

We will never win an argument like that because it is about who has the social power, and we are not really social creatures.

I will not engage in that type of argument any more. It can only go wrong for me. My best course of action is to sit quietly and make notes about what the person said for later reference, but I dont know if I would recommend that in your situation.



Logical Fallacies

A passive aggressive approach is to let you co-workers fail. State what is right and don't waste any time arguing--no matter how bad the consequences. Instead, just do the best you avoid the fallout afterwards. After all, you have a heads up on what is going to happen. But, if someone needs help, and is willing to listen, spend the time you would arguing to help them out.

It is not always that simple. We have many inter-related projects and if one fails, it will have effects across the entire program.

Most people are bloody idiots who aren't worth reasoning with.

I often feel this way, but it is their society and we have to learn how to live in it



Occasionally I find NTs who are great.

My current supervisor is one of those rare people who has a good understanding of his own internal motivations and thinking processes.

I only understand people after having hours or days to analyze the situation.

I build models of all the people with whom I interact regularly and I am constantly comparing their actions to the model.

When they deviate from the model, it raises alarms for me.

I know then that I need to be wary of irrational behavior; often resulting from something totally unrelated to me, but affecting me because, people suck ass.

I told my supervisor that he has good "model fidelity", which means he is trustworthy.

Even when I am in the middle of a meltdown and don't want to trust anyone or even be near anyone. I can keep telling myself "I trusted him yesterday, I can trust him today."