Page 1 of 2 [ 31 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

marshall
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

26 May 2009, 10:20 pm

This might sound arrogant to some but I want to know if anyone here can relate to this. Is high intelligence almost as large of a barrier to satisfying friendships as AS?

All my life I've only ever been able to bond well with immature/geeky NT's who I can't discuss anything too serious with. This is the way it was in both High School and College for me. I've always hung out with people who liked to play video games and enjoyed South-Park'ish style humor, people who seemed rather simple to me. I've never felt deeply connected with anyone my age.

Sometimes I fear that even if I had perfect social skills I'd still be unhappy and lonely because I'm just too "different". Lately whenever I'm around people I don't even have the energy to talk. Sometimes I desperately want to talk but don't know what I want to talk about. Nothing seems worth the effort to bring up yet I can't handle the disconnect. I sense this odd mental thirst for something I can't even define. I wonder if this is a real need or if my depression is making me feel strange emotionally.



Brusilov
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 330

26 May 2009, 10:50 pm

AWESOME, AWESOME POST: You hit the nail on the head for me.


I know exactly what you are saying. It sounds pretentious to say this, of course, but a high IQ can be a huge barrier to forming friendships with your peer group. That was the problem that I had in school, in addition to AS. Without bragging, my IQ is, well, very high, and I felt like I just couldn't relate to anything that my peers were interested in. Consequently I tended to seek out teachers and adults for conversation and friendship as opposed to other kids. My mother tried to redirect me towards my peers but her attempts to get me to socialize ended disastrously. Other kids my age couldn't give me the mental stimulation that I craved, and were interested in trite, pop-culture material. Adults would typically humor me for a while and then would blow me off. I wanted to be regarded as a mature adult commensurate with my mental development but people would always regard me as an odd kid who didn't fit in and wasn't "fun." I acted like a sophisticated adult in a boy's body, and thus was unsuited for childish games, taunts, and pursuits.

I was reading in a book recently that having an IQ over 150 just puts too much distance between yourself and your peers to have much in common. The most successful kids typically have IQs in the low-moderate gifted range between 125-145, because they can still relate to their peers without being too far apart to come off as being too different. The only time people in the high-gifted range can really become leaders or function with other people in a productive environment is when they are with other moderately-gifted people, like in a think-tank. High-gifted individuals have a hard time getting normal people to accept their ideas, because their ideas are usually too far outside of their range of comprehension. High-end gifted people have little tolerance and patience for social rituals and niceties. Low-end gifted people have an easier time relating and thus slide in as natural leaders.

It is not really arrogant to suggest that you are "too smart" to find friends. It is tough to lower yourself to the common denominator and spend time with people who aren't in your intellectual level. Even though you can humor others for a while, eventually you just get too bored talking about monster trucks and football and you just want to move on. You get tired of them and start to reject their overtures for friendship. Being with them almost feels painful. People with AS in general, and especially gifted people with AS find it virtually impossible to connect with our peer-group. For one, we tend not to share the values of our generation, and have ideas and ideals that are either extremely liberal or conservative.

I think that you are around your peers and are seeking mental stimulation that they can not provide. It isn't their fault that they are not as intelligent as you, but they just can't reciprocate on your level. And when you go to teachers to try and talk about stuff, it seems like they get annoyed and try and brush you off. It always seemed to me like the "nerdy" kids were more interested in immature stuff like Monty Python or Star Wars and I could never relate to them. The nerdy kids at my school were nerdy NTs and they formed exclusive cliques just like everyone else. The "nerds" were probably more exclusive than the more popular kids, since they did not want to be knocked down to the lowest social tier and thus they jealously guarded their perrogatives from the "untouchables." As a boy I was uninterested in doing "fun stuff" with anyone in the first place. I wanted to talk to others to exchange information, but not to have a social experience.

It is really hard to be around people you perceive as "simple," because it just gets too boring. Listening to a stupid person talk begins to hurt your ears after a while. The mental thirst that you can't define is wanting a stimulation that others can't provide. You can't be friends with most other people beacuse they are not your equals. And because you have AS, it is difficult for you to find other gifted people or wind up in an occupation where you will be with other stimulating, intelligent men. If you wind up in some manual job, you will be with the same plebian individuals with whom you can't relate. Shoot to be a lawyer or a slot in a think-tank. Try and surround yourself with intelligent company.



SilverStar
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,058
Location: Ohio, USA

26 May 2009, 11:47 pm

Same for me too. I didn't really fit in with anybody when I went to school either. I would say that I'm made up of bits and pieces of each category of people, but no group of people in particular. I was like a pinball machine when I was younger; I was the ball bouncing around to different groups of people trying to find someone I could relate to, only never to find anyone.

My family is poor/low middle class, although most of the poorer people around here aren't very smart, and are into the drinking, drugs, are on welfare, are always in trouble with the law, dress scummy, have trashy houses and cars, etc, but we have the smarts and values of the middle/upper middle class. it's like we are stuck in between those two.

One of the things that's really frustrating for me is when I see somebody doing something wrong, struggling with something, or whatever else, and I try to inform them on how they can change things, to save them a lot of frustration, time and energy, and it falls on def ears.



mgran
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 May 2009
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,864

27 May 2009, 1:00 am

What's the name of that book? It would help me find out coping strategies for my son, who is over 150. (I'm just under.)

My worst experiences have been working with "normal" people, who think that I'm showing off if I talk even half way intelligently. I've been sacked on one occasion for speaking foriegn languages to customers. I'd have thought that was good for business, but no... it just generated gossip that I was talking about people behind their back.

Women tend to say that I'm stuck up and snooty, men that I'm stand offish and proud.



Brusilov
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 330

27 May 2009, 1:19 am

I checked it out from the library a couple months ago. I can't remember what it was called but the next chance I get I'll stop by and see what the title was. The content of the book was dealing with kids and adolescents who were gifted, had Aspergers, ADD, or ADHD. It was really good. It described how some people are "too gifted" and can't relate with peers. It gets to the point where they come off as too odd or standoffish and can't function. Overly gifted kids can get depressed because they feel that they can't reciprocate with anyone and that they are living in a watered-down world that isn't letting them achieve their potential or participate in activities commensurate for someone with their mental development. Basically, imagine being an adult and having to go back to the 6th grade and redo all of the assignments and the curriculum, and subject yourself to school rules.

I advise taking your son to advanced courses and resource classes in topics he is interested in. Get him interacting with teachers teaching these extra-curricular activities beacuse they like being there and sharing knowledge with kids. Your gifted son needs to be around other exceptionally gifted kids or intelligent adults who are willing to share their knowledge and passions with him. Alot of teachers at school just "go through the motions" and get irritated when kids go "above and beyond" or pester them for advanced information. Your son probably needs to interact with intelligent older people who have a higher maturity level(academically.) In St. Louis, there is a school called the Forsyth center that offers weekend classes with things like Chess-Clubs, Science, and other such things, and it is a great "head-house" where kids really get to feel free to develop their interests. In a regular school, it is perceived as unpopular to be a "know it all" or like school. It is hard for gifted kids to have to keep their passions, "in the closet."

I basically can't work in a job with "regular people." At some points I was "overly functional." I would get paranoid about everything and attend to every minute detail, and I just couldn't relax and go with the flow. But besides, I HATED my coworkers, who only could talk about plebian topics. I also HATED dealing with customers. I just hated work in general. I would do things like speak French at work, thinking it would come off well, but in reality stuff like that always backfired. It was really hard for me just to "be normal."

And also, I live in an area filled with low-class, "white-trash," and it sucks. It gives meaning to the saying, "How the other half lives." It is like they don't give a damn about anything. Seriously, I don't know what they actually think about. They live like animals and have no sense of taste. And dont get me started on country and rap music.



marshall
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

27 May 2009, 2:18 am

Thanks for the input.

Actually in college I did enjoy my friends somewhat, I just never felt like I was completely "finding myself" with them. I acted immature and extremely sarcastic. I said shocking things and ripped on everything. That was my only mode of operation which allowed me to fit in, to have a role within the group.

When I got to graduate school I thought I could find more intellectual stimulation but I was wrong. I fit in even less now. If I can't be immature and sarcastic I basically have no personality and succumb to my normal, highly reserved nature. I can't really impress anyone verbally because my verbal IQ is average. My memory for words is utter crap and I often feel like I can't articulate anything. My real intellectual strength is purely in the non-verbal area.



Gliesen_Antrho
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 9 Dec 2008
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 73

27 May 2009, 3:41 am

Once someone told me they were just chatting not trying to have an intellectual conversation, I did not have the heart to tell them I was already dumbing it down. :)



mgran
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 May 2009
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,864

27 May 2009, 3:45 am

I don't understand what "chat" is for. :oops: It's something that seems like a phenomenal waste of time. If something is worth talking about, surely it's worth thinking about too?

Argh!



Brusilov
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 330

27 May 2009, 4:04 am

Yeah, I hate small talk. I usually have a default set of questions and answers to open a converstion with. But I hate talking about myself and mundane things in my personal life.

I typically only have a conversation or socialize to have what I call an "information dump." Sometimes I feel like I have some profound thing on my mind that I have to share with others. Then, occasionally, I go seek someone out. But I never get with someone just for the joy of having company or socializing. I hate just "hanging out." I like to be actively engaged in some productive interest at all times.



ZakFiend
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 547

27 May 2009, 4:42 am

mgran wrote:
I don't understand what "chat" is for. :oops: It's something that seems like a phenomenal waste of time. If something is worth talking about, surely it's worth thinking about too?

Argh!


Chat is for sharing emotions and experiences together, think of it like a circuit, you think of other people and treat them well and want to have fun with the other person (joking, being sarcastic, setting the emotional tone of the relationship, etc). Chat is largely about shared feelings and shared experiences.



outlier
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,429

27 May 2009, 10:14 am

A few years ago, I'd meet a lot of intellectual and highly intelligent people around my age, but they'd mostly like to chat about everyday topics and party. I got on far better with a man they didn't like for being "not intelligent." I'm not sure what it's like for others, in general.



b9
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,003
Location: australia

27 May 2009, 10:57 am

i have found that "intelligent" friends usually have large egos.
they can not keep quiet and listen.
they must offer their appraisals, and their appraisals are usually antagonistic to my thought train.

i like simpler people. i relax better when someone that is with me is not totally consumed with the desire to out-preform me.
i am not competitive at all, and some male friends i have made are very compelled to see faults in what i am asserting, and they would like me to succumb and admit some kind of "defeat".

that will not happen.

there is always a kind of "tension" between me and a person who lives in their idealized notion of themself as "super intelligent".

they can not resist to try to falsify what they see that challenges their seat on whatever throne they imagine they sit on.

i like people that experience more earthy and simple things.
they calm me and distract me into simplicity, and i like them better.



marshall
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

27 May 2009, 11:46 am

ZakFiend wrote:
mgran wrote:
I don't understand what "chat" is for. :oops: It's something that seems like a phenomenal waste of time. If something is worth talking about, surely it's worth thinking about too?

Argh!


Chat is for sharing emotions and experiences together, think of it like a circuit, you think of other people and treat them well and want to have fun with the other person (joking, being sarcastic, setting the emotional tone of the relationship, etc). Chat is largely about shared feelings and shared experiences.


My problem is that I don't share much in common emotionally with anyone. For me it all feels very sterile and flat. If I'm in a good mood I can successfully put on an act but I still feel fake. If I'm not in a gregarious mood (which I'm not 90% of the time) then my mind drifts. I forget important pieces of information needed to keep the conversation going. I can be heavily sarcastic around other sarcastic people but I'm useless when it comes to average polite small-talk.

I only have two modes of operation that feel natural. I'm either completely honest and engaged in an in-depth discussion or I'm moody and drench everything in sarcasm. The latter attitude is inappropriate with most people.



marshall
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

27 May 2009, 11:48 am

outlier wrote:
A few years ago, I'd meet a lot of intellectual and highly intelligent people around my age, but they'd mostly like to chat about everyday topics and party...

That's been my experience as well.



marshall
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

27 May 2009, 11:59 am

b9 wrote:
i have found that "intelligent" friends usually have large egos.
they can not keep quiet and listen.
they must offer their appraisals, and their appraisals are usually antagonistic to my thought train.

i like simpler people. i relax better when someone that is with me is not totally consumed with the desire to out-preform me.
i am not competitive at all, and some male friends i have made are very compelled to see faults in what i am asserting, and they would like me to succumb and admit some kind of "defeat".

that will not happen.

there is always a kind of "tension" between me and a person who lives in their idealized notion of themself as "super intelligent".

they can not resist to try to falsify what they see that challenges their seat on whatever throne they imagine they sit on.

i like people that experience more earthy and simple things.
they calm me and distract me into simplicity, and i like them better.

I think a lot of people who act like that aren't as intelligent as they think they are. They're just opinionated.



solinoure
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2009
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 211
Location: Toontown, Texas

27 May 2009, 3:23 pm

Great thread!
As an aspie with a 150+ IQ, I can relate to what marshall and Brusilov are saying.
For are long long time I too have had difficulties interacting with "lesser mortals". (lol j/k - I don't think anyone is intrinsically lesser)
As for interacting with NT smart people... ick - give me the simple ones... the simpler the better. I would rather spend time around a salt of the earth ol' timey country bumpkin, than endure the "intellectualism" of higher IQ'ed NTs. They have all that intellect and it all goes to social climbing...
bleh...

We should form an aspie genius cabal... :evil: AND THEN, WE TAKE OVER THE WORLD!! ! :twisted:

(wait - where did pinky go?)


_________________
The river tells no lies - but, the dishonest man, standing near, will hear them. - Oma
I am not responsible for what I say - you are! I am only responsible for the words I speak. - me